How should covid be paid for?

[KenDodd]

I think there should be a small wealth tax (up to 1%) and before anyone starts saying I'm just jealous or whatever, I would be in for thousands of pounds that I don't have and would have to owe. I feel really strongly that we can't just load yet more debt onto the young, they have it much worse than my generation did already (I'm 51).

Yabu - No to wealth tax
Yanbu - Yes to wealth tax

If you vote No, please suggest an alternative that you think would be fairer.

@VinylDetective

*£10k what? Every year? How would a pensioner on a state pension afford this? How? Without selling their home? And why should they have to. This divisive, intergenerational, entitled bollocks really boils my piss*

How many people on just state pensions do you seriously think are living in million pound houses? It’s nothing intergenerational - I’m a pensioner and can’t see a problem with it.

And as for people being less stupid than they were in the 80s - seriously? They’ve just voted Johnson in as PM, ffs, it doesn’t get stupider than that. And more people don’t consume more services, parents of school age kids consume far more services than a couple without kids.

Your misunderstanding of how the UK election process works aside, children could be counted as people I suppose.

But personally I'd remove local taxation and move it I to a national tax and spending. It would prevent the rich areas getting better and the poor areas getting shitter.

September CPI will shortly be out. Probably near negative. Why will next April’s State pension rise be 2.5%? The impact of Covid on the CPI and national average earnings will highlight this disparity and the triple lock will definitely go very soon

Personally I would slap a massive import tax on China. I can’t imagine we send much back proportionately

If we are unhappy with the amount of tax paid in this country by multinationals like Apple, stick a multinational purchase tax on anything bought from them by a person in the UK etc. I appreciate this will have tit for tat ramifications and needs more thought.

Split employee national insurance so that only the part that is actually going towards pension savings continues to be paid by those in work. Then apply the rest as income tax that everyone pays, pensioners included.

And a house sale tax similar to CGT on house sales on a proportion of % growth in value over length of time. So anyone benefiting from a house price boom period would be taxed on this on eventual sale of their house

And another thing! So much money sloshing around in the black economy. Much more use of unexplained wealth orders etc. Create new departments of tax inspectors bonus incentivised for finding these people and collecting the tax/seizing assets

And whilst I know this ship has largely sailed, much bigger property taxes for foreign investors at the point of purchase, during (none) occupancy and sale

@VinylDetective

*£10k what? Every year? How would a pensioner on a state pension afford this? How? Without selling their home? And why should they have to. This divisive, intergenerational, entitled bollocks really boils my piss*

How many people on just state pensions do you seriously think are living in million pound houses? It’s nothing intergenerational - I’m a pensioner and can’t see a problem with it.

And as for people being less stupid than they were in the 80s - seriously? They’ve just voted Johnson in as PM, ffs, it doesn’t get stupider than that. And more people don’t consume more services, parents of school age kids consume far more services than a couple without kids.

Seriously, that’s your justification?! Because most pensioners don’t live in million pound houses??? Many in the south east live in properties worth upwards of £500k. They can’t buy bread and milk with a fucking brick.

Many in the south east live in properties worth upwards of £500k. They can’t buy bread and milk with a fucking brick.

Yep
The street I’m on has people who have lived here for over 30 years. Low income / pension. There’s no way you’ll squeeze 1% tax on top. Crazy

In SE London it’s very common to have house like this but not necessarily high income.

We could also tax foreigners buying up property and land here, like NZ does.

And a house sale tax similar to CGT on house sales on a proportion of % growth in value over length of time. So anyone benefiting from a house price boom period would be taxed on this on eventual sale of their house

This proposal will just mean fewer properties will be sold with a knock on effect in the Construction industry. Fewer properties available to rent through the private sector if those owners have to pay additional tax on their asset. Rents will go up to cover any tax those people might have to pay.

@KenDodd

Oh and a wealth tax works but adding up the value of all your assets, deducting any debts and applying a tax to the remainder.

So those who have struggled to buy two-bedroomed £400k flat in the south east, with children sharing a room, pay more than those with a five-bedroomed £275k house with two spare rooms in the north west?

The world continued after WW1 & WW2 & subsequent wars

These times all cost money & lives

@Thirtyrock39

It was morally right to lockdown to protect the vulnerable but there is a lot of wealth in the older generations so it is only fair that they need to contribute now as so much was sacrificed by the young. There was a good column in the times a few weeks ago showing the percentage of millionaires in their 60s but it would take a brave Tory chancellor to start making the grey vote pay up. My parents are well off and don't need a bus pass, tv licence or free prescriptions. They have said this themselves. I still find it surprising that people get so irate about a £100 tv licence for pensioners but were fine about students having to get annual loans around £20000 to go to university.

How many of those "millionaires" just own a two-up, two-down terraced house in London? Just because someone has a valuable asset, it doesn't mean that they are swimming in cash. They still need somewhere to live.

OP, wealth taxes never raise much. This years budget deficit is likely to be £370bn, you don't pay off those sorts of figures by taking 1% out of everyone's account. Inflation will be the only way out.

@Elsewyre you're either a goady fucker or thick.

@Myalternate

And a house sale tax similar to CGT on house sales on a proportion of % growth in value over length of time. So anyone benefiting from a house price boom period would be taxed on this on eventual sale of their house

This proposal will just mean fewer properties will be sold with a knock on effect in the Construction industry. Fewer properties available to rent through the private sector if those owners have to pay additional tax on their asset. Rents will go up to cover any tax those people might have to pay.

Sorry I didn’t expand enough on this. I would propose a threshold before this tax came into effect so it was only picking up on growth over (for the sake of argument) average nationwide house growth. And only for the future. This would affect certain areas booming over other areas. If anything I think it would slow house price growth and thus allows more people to get on the property ladder.

We are in a crisis phase. The world and particularly the UK and US will be different after this. It is likely that current solutions won't get us there. So having reflected, I currently have no idea.

After ww1 we were in recession for a decade and not completely recovered by ww1. After ww2 we got a loan from the US. It took decades to pay off. This time that won't happen.

Your misunderstanding of how the UK election process works aside, children could be counted as people I suppose.hmm

I know perfectly well how the UK electoral process works, thank you. I’ve been voting in it for over 50 years.

And, yes, children count as people but obviously wouldn’t count in a poll tax type scenario because they have no income. Which is why such a system is fundamentally unfair and brought down its designer the last time it was tried.

If anyone thinks it would work 40 years later because the population has miraculously become more intelligent, they’re proving completely the opposite.

As someone said above many of the countries that had wealth taxes have abolished them as they do not work and do not raise much money. Sweden even abolished inheritance tax.

I think New Zealand put VAT on just about everything other than rent and did a few other innovative things that have worked quite well. There is no single person tax allowance so you pay tax on each penny earned

"New Zealand's personal income tax rates depend on your income increases. The top personal tax rate is 33% (for income over NZ$70,000). The lowest personal tax rate is 10.5% (for income up to $14,000)".

So in the UK the top rare is 45% tax plus 2% NI = 47% - much too high (and 9% graduate tax on top for some)

Inheritance tax.
Annual tax on trusts which are for the benefit of specific families.
Property tax on second homes, including holiday lets hidden in companies.

Everyone of working age will have to pay more in taxes. Maybe more if you earn more.

I do think taxes should be raised.
I have lived in Scandinavian countries where taxes are very, very high and no-one escapes paying them. However, their healthcare and services are great, and salaries are high too, leading to a high standard of living and a (generally) more contented population.
Those who have little wealth are still supported and protected, of course.

@Lilybet1980

Why should I be penalised for having worked hard to pay off my mortgage? If debt is deducted I’d be incentivised to mortgage the crap out of my property. How does that help anyone?

I’d stick a couple of % on income tax. And it might be small change in the grand scheme of things but I would means test more benefits (winter fuel allowance anyone?).

If you mortgaged your property, you'd still have a taxable asset - the money from the mortgage! Unless you spent it all on......well, what?

And the interest on the mortgage would be about the same as the wealth tax anyway.

So your choice is support your country or make the bank richer.

I think a wealth tax is fine. But also the govt should issue Covid bonds, like war bonds.

Property tax on second homes, including holiday lets hidden in companies.

There’s nothing untoward about holding property within a limited company. Profits from holiday let’s/properties held within companies already pay corporation tax of 19%. A director is then taxed again on any income taken out of the company.

@AuntieJoyce

And another thing! So much money sloshing around in the black economy. Much more use of unexplained wealth orders etc. Create new departments of tax inspectors bonus incentivised for finding these people and collecting the tax/seizing assets

And whilst I know this ship has largely sailed, much bigger property taxes for foreign investors at the point of purchase, during (none) occupancy and sale

Fully agree. Also need to reverse Gordon Brown's closures of hundreds of local tax offices. Local inspectors working/living locally would massively improve tax recovery from the black economy.

When I started in accountancy in the early 80s, we had local tax offices for both income tax and VAT. The inspectors would notice what was happening locally, make notes of new shops opening, make notes of new builders' liveried vans. We even had one local inspector who trawled through the local newspaper every week making notes of which businesses were advertising and creating his own "database" which he'd then check a couple of years later against tax returns submitted.

Back then, small businesses would expect a VAT visit every few years. It was common for a new business to have their first tax return inspected in detail - we'd expect the standard template letter a few weeks after submitting accounts asking the same questions, i.e. standard of book-keeping, analysis of repairs, analysis of drawings, details of any cash/bank differences, etc. We see none of that now. The last tax enquiry our practice clients have must have been 10 years ago, and the last VAT enquiry must have been 15 years ago.

The tax loss from the black economy dwarfs other tax losses yet HMRC seem completely impotent to do anything about it.

I reckon the people who got the benefit of furlough should be taxed for it. As a business owner, I got a Bounce Back loan to tide me through. But it's a loan - I'm expected to (and will) pay it back.

As for elderly social care (which this thread seems to have veered off into) I reckon it should be funded by increased inheritance tax.

@BashfulClam

Can we stop MP’s having a pay rise this year? Nope!

Clamp down on second house expenses. Parasites claiming £100 for silk cushion covers and £300 for a toilet roll holder. I’d prefer a halls of residence for them all when they have to stay in London. Stop subsidising their meals and drinks when they are very well paid and can afford to pay full price.

Yes to this.