To not be able to discipline DS12

[Needl]

Please help,I need advice. Huge backstory, so please bear with, I'M NOT A TROLL.My DS12 is getting out of control. He got in with a really bad group of older girls at school last year, and even though we have moved him to a different school, he continues to keep in contact with these girls online. He is not allowed social media due to being underage, so he went behind our back and set up an Instagram account to keep in touch with them. I monitor his internet use, but its been a hectic week, so I didn't find till this weekend. What I found shocked me, these girls have been sending him porn and encouraging him to go through mine and DH's personal things when he's home alone and report back to them with what he's found. When we confronted DS he went apeshit, screaming that we were intrusive and over controlling and shit parents. He even pulled out his pocket knife and waved it around threateningly. Dh grabbed the knife and DS ran out of the house. DH went looking for him, but he ran off everytime Dh got close. In the end we had to call the police to pick him up and bring him home. We asked the police what to do, and he just shrugged and said he's probably embarrassed but don't worry he will grow out of it.
The next day we sat Ds down and said that there would be no more smart phone or internet access, and he was grounded for a month. He responded by hurling his skateboard at my head. Which we have now confiscated. The day after that he accompanied me on a walk to the shops and while I was paying, took off again. I gound him at park with a local boy (who is a good kid), borrowing his phone. I went over and said "sorry x, ds is grounded and can't play right now ,you can have your phone back, ds is coming home ". Ds just smirked and handed the phone back, said goodbye to his friend and came home in a good mood. Later that night I checked his Instagram and saw he had used that time at the park to contact one of the girls, asking her to delete the messages and he'd be in touch later.

I'm at a complete loss, how do I enforce consequences, when its just a game to him? He shot up over lockdown and is bigger than me now, and seems to think he can do as he pleases. I've made an appointment for us to see a counsellor later in the week. Has anyone else had a teenage son who has behaved like this?

This sounds awful for you. It sounds like it is really out of your control and you need some outside support. Is it possible for you to speak to his school and try to get some extra support? Or even social services as it sounds like your son is becoming really abusive towards you and it is dangerous.

In the meantime I would make sure he has no pocket money etc so he has no way to travel to these friends.

This is really hard. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

Resources where I am have all been massively affected by finding cuts so I’m not sure whats available where you are. However I would contact his school first and arrange a meeting, find out what he is like in school, any issues they have with him, and ask for any referrals they feel could be made to support services or even just any organisations they know of that could help. I would also contact social service and action for children if they operate in your area. The knife is a really important factor here. Please don’t leave that detail out when speaking to all these people, particularly social services, they need to know how serious this is.

Also very important, you and DH need to have a sit down and make sure you’re both on the same page in how to handle him, both when he kicks off/misbehaves and in terms of what outside support you seek.

While suggestions like cadets are well meaning, it will be entirely fruitless for a boy in your son’s current frame of mind. Cadets isn’t boot camp for young offenders, it’s a voluntarily undertaken hobby for children who want to be part of it. They don’t exist to instil discipline where there is no desire to be a disciplined person.

We have had nuclear level sanctions, we have have tried sports clubs and positive role modles, its just a game to him to see how long it takes before he's figured a way around it. He's highly intelligent, bored at school and looks much older than he is. Parental controls on the internet do not work, he manages do circumnavigate them everytime. Last year at school he got glowing reports and even an award for having done the most hours on an online math curriculum. We later found out he had hacked the math program and re wrote the code so that all he had to do was logon for 5 mins and it would record him as having done 3 hours. He is not 100% awful, he's normally polite and hardworking, was in the leadership team at school (until we dobbed him in for hacking system), he's just got these girls contacting him and encouraging him to lie. He has ALWAYS had consequences for his actions, but how can I enforce them now?

I would contact the police about the girls sending him porn as a starting point.

Wearywithteens, you say you would have made your child know life would not have been worth living. How would you have done that?

@nimbuscloud

I would contact the police about the girls sending him porn as a starting point.

Yes to this. Not only do their parents need to know but hopefully it will stop it when they are found out and bollocked by the police for sending porn to a child.

Nimbuscloud, i spoke to the police officer when they brought him home, he literally shrugged and said they're all doing it, they're all underage and theres nothing they can do except keep repeating to them that its not ok. He just seemed resigned to it.

Why has he got a pocket knife??

I'm sorry, I know it's not funny, but bloody hell, the kid's got skills. Sic him on the Pentagon?!

The pocket knife was from a few years ago when he and his friends were into bear grylls and survival stuff. They'd spend hours whittling things and making ropes. I'd honestly forgotten he even had it.

@Needl

Nimbuscloud, i spoke to the police officer when they brought him home, he literally shrugged and said they're all doing it, they're all underage and theres nothing they can do except keep repeating to them that its not ok. He just seemed resigned to it.

Make an official report. Some police officers are lazy/inept or just don’t care- sounds like you got one of them. Make and official report on 101 and they have to follow it up.

I am now talking with techie husband about how useful an IT mentorring club could be. . .

He needs to use his powers for good!

Mbosnz, we know the kid has skills, thats why this is so frustrating. He could be amazing, but he's convinced we are the enemy and he's hell bent on destroying any boundry we put in place and his refusal to accept consequences has me seriously concerned for his future.

Whilst sanctions have their place building on good is more effective. Offering something more appealing than inappropriate friendship and activities is probably the way forwards.
Fill his spare time with lovely activities and fun that is directed and managed by you. Give him lots of positive attention. Meet him after school, book things to do (a bit hard with Covid19 but not impossible. Plan weekend activities. Use enticement to divert him - his father making a remote control car, a game of squash with his father, meals out together, short visits to granny, weekends away even.
Learn to enjoy his company.
I’d complain to school about older pupils passing porn around.

I absolutely get how worried and frustrated you must be. So much potential - bound up with arrogance and young ones ten foot tall and bullet proof. . . all it takes is the one wrong mis-step.

@Needl

Nimbuscloud, i spoke to the police officer when they brought him home, he literally shrugged and said they're all doing it, they're all underage and theres nothing they can do except keep repeating to them that its not ok. He just seemed resigned to it.

If a police officer genuinely shrugged his shoulders at the sexual exploitation of a 12 year old, you need to go fucking ballistic at him as well - make a formal complaint, quite frankly. Also, noone was worried about the knife? A 20 year old man was just jailed for the murder of another man using the victim's own knife. Do you live in Noddyland that the poluce round your way dont take knives and porn on pre-teens very seriously?

Btw, do you actually know for certain that these older girls are girls? Anyone can scoop nudey photos of teens off the internet.

I would be in touch with social services and the local Youth Offending team. Social services can help with this.

Your son is on a very dangerous path, and you absolutely need to yell for help.

Whilst sanctions have their place building on good is more effective.

Agree with this. (Although it’s very very hard to do when all they’re giving you is shit) sanctions can only go so far and kids work out very easily that you have limits to how much you can punish them. Some are very happy to suffer the punishments because the kick they get from the bad behaviour is worth it.

Why does he say he does it?

I would also formally report the girls to the police and their school for sending porn. That is the right thing to do.

Speak to a community officer for advice, hopefully someone other than you spoke to. Also talk to school.

I don't really know what to do but never give up.

There must be some private support, if you can afford it.

for you.

I do know the older girls, they are 14, 14 and 15. One of the 14 year olds has a father who is currently in prison for sexually abusing her, she is obviously very troubled and already has social welfare involved with her.

Take his shoes away? He won't get very far and will look a twit of he turns up barefoot.

He’d go straight to his dads wardrobe and borrow a pair until he could get to a friends house to swap them or else steal some from a shop. He won’t care about looking a twit.

In that case, if the girls already have SS involvement, you just need to get talking to SS. Go back to the police and do some complaining - do you have the officer's collar number? The majority of officers would take something like this very seriously, so you just got a duff one.

Its not unfeasible that the girls are mixed up with more serious offenders, who might see the opportunities afforded by having a clever techy and very naive kid on side. Even on "hectic days" you can't afford to take your eye off the ball. Have you got younger children?

Well take them away and see. put his and your husbands shoes together and hide them or heap them.in the same room. See if he actually goes out. hide the laces, take his handset away, take his phone away, take the SIM out of his phone, cancel the contract, phone the phone company and disconnect his number, turn off your router, turn your hotspot off, cancel his phone contract, delete his social media, reset his email password so he can't just log back on and reset stuff. If he has to register each time it will at least eat up and waste his time and take some joy out of it for him.

You are the parent and you have the authority. He isn't legally entitles to a phone and social media.

And security/management will be stra9ght onto anyone barefoot. If he comes home with shoes that aren't his, bin them. His mates will soon stop lending them to him.