To Think School Is Unreasonable

[LadyofTheManners]

I have 2 DC's at the school, it's a secondary school
One is year 9, other year 8

Now, I have upmost respect for teachers and understand the current situation is extremely difficult to manage. It's also difficult for parents like me with an SEN child and I don't feel they've managed that very well.

We've had instances where DS has been given demerits over the pettiest of reasons. He has been shouted at by staff (self appointed Covid Marshalls) for not having a mask but a quick check at their list and he is exempt. He got a demerit for having his school jumper on last week when they're part of the uniform (he was told it was a sweatshirt).
They've instigated so many new "rules" which gain them instant demerits. Yet they've not actually published these new rules anywhere. So on Fridays when tutor time is reading time, not having a book means an instant demerit. 3 means a detention. Last year, they just went to the library and borrowed one.

I totally support good behaviour and stamping out disruptive behaviour, but these do nothing against that. They also seem to be predominantly targeting SEN kids and parents hit financially by covid.

Then we have the icing on the cake of daft new rules.
All the way through school, they allow them to wear black PE kit, DD has always, like everyone else, had Adidas bottoms and top. They match and are clean and tidy every time. She wears as is requested the school logo top underneath.

This has never, ever been commented on. Not once, to any of us parents. There is a school fleece but it's £30 upwards. And fleeces aren't the most economical of items when you wash them they go baggy. If you get wet in them they're awful. So very few wear them.

Obviously, due to covid, they have to wear their kit all day, and their bags and stuff gets left on the field, they can't use the changing room at all. So keeping them warm is important, we are afterall being told to protect the NHS and not get unwell where possible.

Friday evening we all got an email. They may no longer wear anything other than plain black bottoms and the school fleece. Anyone wearing anything with a logo will have it removed and an instant detention.

Now, they've been back a month. They had all of lockdown to tell us all. The weather has just turned vile. All windows are open all day.
When is this being actioned for sanction for not complying? Today. So that gave us parents no notice at all. School shop is shut, local school outfitters has a 8 week backlog.

They're being ridiculous aren't they? I mean personally, I think PE should take a backseat to catching up on core subjects missed during lockdown. I've got DD absolutely losing her temper over not being able to keep warm all day, as she will just have to wear the school PE long sleeve top as we don't have fleeces. I'm also not spending £30+ on one when I've just sorted her a tracksuit that they had no issue with every other year.

Surely in a time when we need to guard against ill health, and when lots of parents are struggling with money, bringing this in is petty?

It depends. At our school, there were always parents complaining that there'd been no warning about various changes, when they'd actually been plenty.

They'd claimed they never got the letter/email/notice, their kids never been told etc...

So if you are consuming on behalf of the class because all are affected, then fair enough. If no-one has raised the issue, it's likely that you/your kids have missed previous communications.

Is he not wearing a mask because the list says he’s exempt or can he not actually wear one? My son has SEN so technically he could be exempt but he wears one without issue.

Seems like very poor communication from school on new expectations. I do think the reading book is reasonable though as they can’t have pupils just wandering off to borrow one when they are trying to minimise movement.

I feel your pain on the PE situation as our school changed the rules from being allowed own black joggers/hoodies To having to buy Logo’d ones. £60 when they only do PE once a week is very annoying!

Da school have asked for plain black joggers and tops or wear school jumper over polo shirt
Ds has almost plain black bottoms but fo have a logo and i have refused to buy anything else ,hes year 11 does pe every other week
If they want plain joggers they can go and buy them or should of added to the list in holidays , when they knew wearing pe kit all day would be required

Can you send your daughter with a note saying that you cannot get hold of a fleece in time so she will be wearing her usual kit? Surely if this decision was last minute then she won't be the only one in this situation.

If this is true, then the school is out of order yes

It looks like the left hand isn’t talking to the right hand and every one is confused.

I wouldn’t go out and buy a fleece when what they have is perfectly fine.

Surely it’s common sense the library would be a no go re books as they need to be quarantined between uses and children can’t wander around breaking bubbles.

Most high schools don’t allow branded PE kits, either plain or the school logo. Maybe enough have been breaking the rules they are having to enforce them stronger.

Schools that have these incredibly rigid rules never seem to realise that the Equality Act applies to them just as much as the rest of the population, i.e. they have a duty to make reasonable adjustments for people with disabilities. Therefore if, for instance, your child's SEN include problems with organising themselves, they should be helped with organisation rather than automatically punished for forgetting a book. It would be worth reminding the school of that.

Yes, this all sounds chaotic and badly communicated.

I would send a calm email to the right person (in my school it would be Deputy Head who does behaviour/pastoral) and say calmly that you feel concerned (not angry/frustrated) that your son is being given demerits inappropriately and that you as a parent feel you do not understand what is needed due to short notice.

I would not get angry at this time as teachers are basically on the frontline of covid with no budget and no support.

But you are still allowed to say what's not working, especially for a child with SEN.

@dontdisturbmenow

It depends. At our school, there were always parents complaining that there'd been no warning about various changes, when they'd actually been plenty.

They'd claimed they never got the letter/email/notice, their kids never been told etc...

So if you are consuming on behalf of the class because all are affected, then fair enough. If no-one has raised the issue, it's likely that you/your kids have missed previous communications.

No this has been a huge topic of discussion and annoyance on the parent forum page, it's genuinely not been brought in until the headteacher messaged us all at 5pm Friday.

I would agree otherwise!
But they did in summer say if your child has sport in the new hall, they must have white soled trainers on to protect the finish (again this was emailed two days before the start of term so that wasn't great either, most kids don't change shoes for PE as they're allowed plain black trainers with uniform so none of them bother carrying extra trainers).

The PE kit thing is annoying. The library book thing is common sense.

But unfairly targeting SEN and financially disadvantaged kids? Give over.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Surely it’s common sense the library would be a no go re books as they need to be quarantined between uses and children can’t wander around breaking bubbles.

Most high schools don’t allow branded PE kits, either plain or the school logo. Maybe enough have been breaking the rules they are having to enforce them stronger.

Oh I get that, but then email us all so we know to make sure they have a book. We have a whole shelf of them indoors. To just bring in demerits over night when before there wasn't an issue is daft.

I would say alot of us are commenting how stressed our kids are. It's so difficult going back after such a huge gap, and with so many changes to the day, with distancing and bubbles and one way systems. There's a lot to remember in a day and I see teachers saying how hard it is for them as adults and I agree, but I think it's just as hard for our children.

@BadDucks

Is he not wearing a mask because the list says he’s exempt or can he not actually wear one? My son has SEN so technically he could be exempt but he wears one without issue.

Seems like very poor communication from school on new expectations. I do think the reading book is reasonable though as they can’t have pupils just wandering off to borrow one when they are trying to minimise movement.

I feel your pain on the PE situation as our school changed the rules from being allowed own black joggers/hoodies To having to buy Logo’d ones. £60 when they only do PE once a week is very annoying!

No he is actually exempt, his consultant when asked for advice said he would find it very difficult to wear one, he did try for the first week of school but went dizzy and had to go to the student support area. We all wear masks though so we aren't "anti maskers"

@IHeartKingThistle

The PE kit thing is annoying. The library book thing is common sense.

But unfairly targeting SEN and financially disadvantaged kids? Give over.

No I think you're missing the point with the give over comment.

As someone else said the Equalities act protects people who have a reason for why Draconian rules will be more difficult.
And £30+ for a fleece to wear an hour a week where previously any form of sweatshirt was fine is going to be hard for some right now.
The school fleece doesn't turn up secondhand. Whereas if a parent needs to buy a plain sweatshirt or a logo one like Adidas, you can often find these on secondhand sites or in charity shops, or a plain one from Primark for under £5.

They are being unreasonable OP and if I were you I'd be writing a strongly worded email to the head teacher an cc'ing your DC's form teachers. They need to be sensible, kind and give parents time to buy items of uniform for their DC if they don't have them. You can't bring in a new uniform rule on a Friday, starting Monday, because that's wholly unreasonable and gives parents no time to action it. You're right that they could have brought these rules in for the start of term and let parents know what they were back in July, to give them time to purchase things. As for picking on your SEN DS, also unacceptable. If they're going to hassle DC for not wearing masks, they should provide anyone who is exempt with a lanyard, a badge or some other identifier so this doesn't keep happening.

We haven't been able to get one of the schools pe zip tops yet, the school said they were going to issue updated advice and then two days after the school started it was the same as before.

It's a bit annoying they have to wear them for 3 lessons per two weeks. Same as when ds son HAD to have football boots although the did t wear them once in years 7 or 8. It's such a waste of money

See we are lucky in that DS form tutor is a star, he's very approachable. He was off last week but phoned me from home to say he was looking into the points DS has received as the tutors who gave them had not replied to email.
DDs Tutor though I've posted about before, he's awful I had to actually raise a complaint about his conduct so he ignores me as well.
I've actually emailed the head of PE and DDs year group and said she has brought her regular sweatshirt in as it's ridiculous to bring in a new measure with no warning and with a weekend to sort out. I've said I won't support a detention and that whereas I'm usually one of the school and it's rules biggest supporters, I feel some of the new measures are silly and making a difficult situation worse. I've also pointed out we should be guarding against them all getting chest infections and having time off to protect the NHS as well from being overwhelmed again.

I don't want to fall out with them, obviously, and rules are great when set out properly and to stop disruptive or disrespectful behaviour, but these aren't. They just seem a bit petty. I know many of them vocally said they didn't feel the school should reopen so you can't help feeling they're taking this out on the children.

I've always thought as well that Uniform stuff is silly when it comes to something like a logo top for PE, wearing the wrong colour socks or logo top doesn't stop them learning but stress and removal from classes over it does.

@DietingSnorlax

We haven't been able to get one of the schools pe zip tops yet, the school said they were going to issue updated advice and then two days after the school started it was the same as before.

It's a bit annoying they have to wear them for 3 lessons per two weeks. Same as when ds son HAD to have football boots although the did t wear them once in years 7 or 8. It's such a waste of money

Oh yes that was another thing brought up by a parent. None of the kids knew what sport they would be doing first day back but her son got a demerit and detention the same day because he didn't have football boots, as did many of his classmates. He didn't know he would be doing football! She also hadn't bought them yet as she said she had done very year group and he never wore them, so they got too small. The rate it was going, to stop them from getting detentions, they'd have needed a swim kit, rugby kit, normal PE top, football boots and shin pads, and white soled trainers as well as their normal black school trainers. That would be fun carrying around all day!

First of all, have you read the rules for the school? All of them? Because where we are, all pupils are expected to have a reading book, every day in their school bag. It's the rule.

They can wear school PE kits, or plain black PE kits - that means no logo. Plain black. THey sell them at Asda, Tesco, Ebay, etc. Not Nike, Not adidas. Plain. The first week back at school, some of the staff let children 'get away' with the branded stuff, but told the kids that from next week, it's plain black or they will get a detention. Those who turn up with branded stuff got a detention.

Are you absolutely sure the school hasn't warned your teenager?

Face masks. How many kids at your school? Do you expect that all teachers, TAs, Middays and supervising staff will know all the kids who are exempt on top of their heads, on week 3 back at school?

I work in a secondary school and absolutely fed up with parents and pupils who think they are above the rules. The rules are for everyone, not just a few. Whether you think it's silly is besides the point. If you want to make the rules, become a Headteacher.

my son often tells us 'we weren't told'

'yes child you were and as you well know thanks to home learning we have access to all your messages, so when I ask you when you get home about x it's not because we are psychic'

So as another poster mentioned have you/your child read ALL school notices etc.

@QueenBlueberries

First of all, have you read the rules for the school? All of them? Because where we are, all pupils are expected to have a reading book, every day in their school bag. It's the rule.

They can wear school PE kits, or plain black PE kits - that means no logo. Plain black. THey sell them at Asda, Tesco, Ebay, etc. Not Nike, Not adidas. Plain. The first week back at school, some of the staff let children 'get away' with the branded stuff, but told the kids that from next week, it's plain black or they will get a detention. Those who turn up with branded stuff got a detention.

Are you absolutely sure the school hasn't warned your teenager?

Face masks. How many kids at your school? Do you expect that all teachers, TAs, Middays and supervising staff will know all the kids who are exempt on top of their heads, on week 3 back at school?

I work in a secondary school and absolutely fed up with parents and pupils who think they are above the rules. The rules are for everyone, not just a few. Whether you think it's silly is besides the point. If you want to make the rules, become a Headteacher.

Wow

Sorry but you sound just the sort of teacher who gives the rest a bad name. Stroppy much?

No, they have not been told. I'm not trying to get rules bent for my children. This was a huge topic of annoyance on the parent forum. Huge.

And actually, expecting teens to recall everything they are told is a bit of a stretch. It's why schools tend to email letters and notices to parents. It's not ignorance it's just how kids are and they are inundated with info and stuff right now. But no, none of our kids knew. I would've been cross with DD if she had.
They've not given points since she's been back with her usual PE kit on. They've given them for everything else.

The mask thing, yeah sure, of course they may not know about who he is. But then ask. Don't shout at him and scare the shite out of him. Just ask, are you exempt. Or when they say something, wait for him to answer in a calm fashion, do not shout and when he tries to explain whilst terrified at being shouted at due to loud noise affecting him deeply, shout over him. What does that instill?

I'm a huge believer that respect is earned and I wouldn't expect my child or any others to respect a teacher who shouts over them when they try and explain.

The book thing is new. They only read during Friday tutor time. If they need a book for English they are given the subject book and will be reminded on Google classroom to bring it the next day. Making not having a book a demerit without notice is silly.

The wellbeing and mental health of our children is at an all time low right now. Demoralising them and making everything a potential pitfall does nothing. And those who points are meant to motivate wear demerits like a badge of honour. It's only really upsetting the good kids, many of whom will reach a stage where they no longer care about the points and they will stop trying.

This is why I hate school uniform. Often, logo'ed items way cheaper than that which come from school suppliers, as requested by the schools.

We had a Head like this who would change the goalposts at the drop of a hat, putting parents through needless expense right at the beginning of term.

This is particulary annoying during times when everyone is worried about job security and have far bigger fish to fry.

I'd go with the note along the lines of that you are happy to replace with the school items when dc have grown out of them and that you apologise but, right now, your budget doesn't allow for changes in policy mid term in this current climate snd also Christmas to consider.

I do think these rules punish parents more than children but they have us over a barrel really because we don't want our children stressed out by the punishments through no fault of our own

It’s very frustrating for everyone I’m sure , but SEN kids are finding it even harder . My SEN child’s secondary school was amazing last year . This year with all the different rules and guidelines in place they have been a nightmare . As someone mentioned, they are still required to make reasonable adjustments . I would be contacting the SENCO if I were you too . My experience so far is that a lot of school staff don’t know their arse from their elbow - not always necessarily their fault as it’s all different for them too .

I entirely agree that this stuff massively affects those who are financially disadvantaged. And I'm not just talking about those who are on benefits, in reality most working parents don't have money to spend replacing perfectly good items of clothing with new ones. I know that 'back in the day' schools used to have almost a crossover period ie this is a new requirement, but if you've already got items that comply with the old rules you can wear them for another year (for example). Still not great, as the uniform logo-d items were far more expensive but at least it meant parents were replacing an item that had by then mostly been outgrown.

We had similar with eldest DC, at the start of secondary the rules around PE kit said any tracksuit/ jogging bottoms 'in school colours'. School colours were navy and grey. The ambiguity - and failure to specify plain with no patterns or logo (other than the school crest) - was clearly an error. So a missive comes out from the school a few weeks later stating plain navy only. My DC had grey which was in keeping with the previous rules. I said I wouldn't be replacing until it was outgrown - alternatively he had something navy with a massive logo? The grey was preferred, and he wore that for the rest of the year, as did a number of other kids.

I was very struck by a headmaster at an extremely high performing school in our local area who made it a rule that none of the uniform at his school had any kind of logo, school or otherwise, and it was all black/ white so easy to buy anywhere. His point was that students were at school to learn, by keeping rules around what they wore as simple as possible he wanted the focus to be on academics not policing whether X's jumper didn't have the logo on, or Y's shirt was slightly the wrong shade of blue etc. At that particular school the only logo-d items were the school tie and a blazer badge (so you could buy the blazer anywhere and just sew or iron the badge on), total cost about £6. If I was education secretary, I'd make ALL state secondary schools take the same approach. Far simpler, cheaper all round and less divisive.

If it's a thing on your parent page, send an email signed by you all, or all send the same email explaining your issues.

"I'm a huge believer that respect is earned..."

I was a huge believer of this when I was a teenager. Then, when I grew up, I realised that there is a difference between 'having respect' and 'showing respect'. You can show respect to someone because of their age or status, despite having personal feelings of disrespect. That's a key message to get across to your children. It won't do them any favours to teach them that 'respect is earned', when in all areas of society, respect is expected regardless of how you actually feel.