To Think School Is Unreasonable

[LadyofTheManners]

I have 2 DC's at the school, it's a secondary school
One is year 9, other year 8

Now, I have upmost respect for teachers and understand the current situation is extremely difficult to manage. It's also difficult for parents like me with an SEN child and I don't feel they've managed that very well.

We've had instances where DS has been given demerits over the pettiest of reasons. He has been shouted at by staff (self appointed Covid Marshalls) for not having a mask but a quick check at their list and he is exempt. He got a demerit for having his school jumper on last week when they're part of the uniform (he was told it was a sweatshirt).
They've instigated so many new "rules" which gain them instant demerits. Yet they've not actually published these new rules anywhere. So on Fridays when tutor time is reading time, not having a book means an instant demerit. 3 means a detention. Last year, they just went to the library and borrowed one.

I totally support good behaviour and stamping out disruptive behaviour, but these do nothing against that. They also seem to be predominantly targeting SEN kids and parents hit financially by covid.

Then we have the icing on the cake of daft new rules.
All the way through school, they allow them to wear black PE kit, DD has always, like everyone else, had Adidas bottoms and top. They match and are clean and tidy every time. She wears as is requested the school logo top underneath.

This has never, ever been commented on. Not once, to any of us parents. There is a school fleece but it's £30 upwards. And fleeces aren't the most economical of items when you wash them they go baggy. If you get wet in them they're awful. So very few wear them.

Obviously, due to covid, they have to wear their kit all day, and their bags and stuff gets left on the field, they can't use the changing room at all. So keeping them warm is important, we are afterall being told to protect the NHS and not get unwell where possible.

Friday evening we all got an email. They may no longer wear anything other than plain black bottoms and the school fleece. Anyone wearing anything with a logo will have it removed and an instant detention.

Now, they've been back a month. They had all of lockdown to tell us all. The weather has just turned vile. All windows are open all day.
When is this being actioned for sanction for not complying? Today. So that gave us parents no notice at all. School shop is shut, local school outfitters has a 8 week backlog.

They're being ridiculous aren't they? I mean personally, I think PE should take a backseat to catching up on core subjects missed during lockdown. I've got DD absolutely losing her temper over not being able to keep warm all day, as she will just have to wear the school PE long sleeve top as we don't have fleeces. I'm also not spending £30+ on one when I've just sorted her a tracksuit that they had no issue with every other year.

Surely in a time when we need to guard against ill health, and when lots of parents are struggling with money, bringing this in is petty?

@grenlei

I entirely agree that this stuff massively affects those who are financially disadvantaged. And I'm not just talking about those who are on benefits, in reality most working parents don't have money to spend replacing perfectly good items of clothing with new ones. I know that 'back in the day' schools used to have almost a crossover period ie this is a new requirement, but if you've already got items that comply with the old rules you can wear them for another year (for example). Still not great, as the uniform logo-d items were far more expensive but at least it meant parents were replacing an item that had by then mostly been outgrown.

We had similar with eldest DC, at the start of secondary the rules around PE kit said any tracksuit/ jogging bottoms 'in school colours'. School colours were navy and grey. The ambiguity - and failure to specify plain with no patterns or logo (other than the school crest) - was clearly an error. So a missive comes out from the school a few weeks later stating plain navy only. My DC had grey which was in keeping with the previous rules. I said I wouldn't be replacing until it was outgrown - alternatively he had something navy with a massive logo? The grey was preferred, and he wore that for the rest of the year, as did a number of other kids.

I was very struck by a headmaster at an extremely high performing school in our local area who made it a rule that none of the uniform at his school had any kind of logo, school or otherwise, and it was all black/ white so easy to buy anywhere. His point was that students were at school to learn, by keeping rules around what they wore as simple as possible he wanted the focus to be on academics not policing whether X's jumper didn't have the logo on, or Y's shirt was slightly the wrong shade of blue etc. At that particular school the only logo-d items were the school tie and a blazer badge (so you could buy the blazer anywhere and just sew or iron the badge on), total cost about £6. If I was education secretary, I'd make ALL state secondary schools take the same approach. Far simpler, cheaper all round and less divisive.

Yes that makes more sense. At my school in the dark ages, we had a burgundy blazer, but you could buy one of these wherever you liked and then buy an iron or sew on patch. And PE kit was kit, they didn't care what you wore.

I do get that some of the girls have been wearing short shorts or tight cycling shorts, ban those if they're so offensive by all means. Although I remember us all having netball skirts which really did take the pee in the summer for how short they were. My DD wears long tracksuit bottoms though, she wouldn't wear a skirt I'd you paid her every robux going.

Our school have said a plain black (non logo) hoodie and tracksuit trousers over the logo pe kit, plus a spare logo pe kit 'in case'

DS is wearing a logo tracksuit, I refuse to buy a new one for 1 day a week. He also doesn't have a spare pe kit, why would he? At over £60 he won't be getting one either. I told school he would happily wear uniform over his pe kit but was told this wasn't acceptable on pe days.

I think schools need to be a bit more flexible at the moment, not everyone has money to spare.

@LadyofTheManners oh I HATED netball skirts with a passion, when I was at school we weren't allowed to wear tracksuits either however cold it got, it was polo tops, netball skirts with pe knickers under, and instruction to run about more if you felt cold. Ugh! There was some irony in that I went to one of the few schools that allowed girls to wear trousers as part of uniform. We just weren't allowed to cover our legs for PE for some reason!

I agree it's ridiculous, but MN seems full of people falling over themselves to encourage this treatment of their dc and calling any parent who thinks the focus is wrong all sorts of names. I don't send my children to school to have their attire policed in detail, I send them to be educated. It is simply untrue to say that their education benefits from strict uniform policies and an approach to discipline which piles penalty upon penalty for such horrendous crimes as removing a blazer, wearing a jumper, wearing a T shirt with the 'wrong' logo. All such policies and approaches do is waste time and create unnecessary work for staff and unnecessary anxiety for children. My middle child started high school this year: his and others stand out memory of their introduction to secondary education is a whole year line up outside and children whose attire did not perfectly meet the uniform policy being publicly pulled out. Children wearing 'trainer style' shoes were forced to change into plimsolls. As plimsolls are far less 'smart' and offer far less protection to feet than trainer style shoes would do, the only reason children were forced to wear plimsolls is to humiliate them. This is not an approach I can respect and it reveals the people who enact it for who they are.

(And no, my son was not one of the children so humiliated. He wears the uniform as listed and obeys rules as he is a nice kid. He does, however, think the rules and teachers are idiotic.)

@unmarkedbythat

I agree it's ridiculous, but MN seems full of people falling over themselves to encourage this treatment of their dc and calling any parent who thinks the focus is wrong all sorts of names. I don't send my children to school to have their attire policed in detail, I send them to be educated. It is simply untrue to say that their education benefits from strict uniform policies and an approach to discipline which piles penalty upon penalty for such horrendous crimes as removing a blazer, wearing a jumper, wearing a T shirt with the 'wrong' logo. All such policies and approaches do is waste time and create unnecessary work for staff and unnecessary anxiety for children. My middle child started high school this year: his and others stand out memory of their introduction to secondary education is a whole year line up outside and children whose attire did not perfectly meet the uniform policy being publicly pulled out. Children wearing 'trainer style' shoes were forced to change into plimsolls. As plimsolls are far less 'smart' and offer far less protection to feet than trainer style shoes would do, the only reason children were forced to wear plimsolls is to humiliate them. This is not an approach I can respect and it reveals the people who enact it for who they are.

(And no, my son was not one of the children so humiliated. He wears the uniform as listed and obeys rules as he is a nice kid. He does, however, think the rules and teachers are idiotic.)

Exactly and that's where the system falls down because now your son will have a lack of respect for those involved because he will see them as petty and cruel. I remember at school when girls were not allowed to wear trousers. We had to wear skirts and socks, no tights, so we froze in winter. I remember falling foul of the rule when it had snowed over night, not dreadfully but slush on the pavement and it was cold. I had a big coat on but my legs were utterly frozen, so I wore black jeans and wellies under my skirt then had the intention of going to the nearest girls loo to change and put them in my locker. On the way there a teacher saw me and she had a right go at me. Because I was a nerd and petrified of getting in trouble, I took the uniform infraction notice she gave me to get my parents to sign without a word. However, to this day I think back to what she was wearing herself, a big coat, jumper, trousers and boots. To then comment about a child wearing something to keep warm walking a 30 minute walk to school when she probably drove and still had warm stuff on, well it makes me cross! I had no intention of wearing it all day and showed her my skirt underneath but nope. I then got grief off my dragon of a mother over the notice.

Yes we need to teach children to follow rules but within reason and for good reason too. Wearing a track top when that's what they've worn for three years and what lots of others with kids in year 11 even have worn without comment, then changing it is ridiculous, in the current climate they should really pick their battles.
I think it's more likely that because they're wearing it all day and two and from its keeping up appearances more than warmth.

It seems from what you've said like they're just enforcing rules which were always there but previously widely ignored. If that's the case then YABU. If the rule has always been plain black PE bottoms but it was widely flouted and now the school (perhaps under some new SLT members?) has decided to keep to the uniform as written, then YABU for having chosen to spend money on a PE kit which went against the uniform policy. Ditto the book thing.

The point where they are being unreasonable is over your son's mask exemption. It's tiring and potentially embarrassing to have to justify himself all the time. Maybe you could suggest that they have an equivalent to the sunflower lanyard which would identify exempt pupils. YABVU to call the staff 'self appointed Covid Marshalls' however. School staff have had the responsibilty to enforce mask wearing added to an already heavy work load. It is in no way self-appointed, it is an unwanted additional burden.

has it occurred to any of you mentioning lanyards that (a)anybody awkward(or with awkward parent) could wear one just to get out of wearing a mask & (most importantly) (b) that you are making the sn dc stand out & maybe becoming a target? & (c) sen dc would have to remember (especially if sn is focused on lack of organisation) to put it on (if doing pe & changing clothes etc)
Some of dc would have an issue with wearing a lanyard & even if they weren't being singled out might feel it does because they wouldn't want to be seen as being different
I think the other/main issue op has singled out is a difficult class teacher
I second going to SENCO when my dc was in HS the SENCO was always the first line important you have 2 & glad the head of year is so understanding

@Fink

It seems from what you've said like they're just enforcing rules which were always there but previously widely ignored. If that's the case then YABU. If the rule has always been plain black PE bottoms but it was widely flouted and now the school (perhaps under some new SLT members?) has decided to keep to the uniform as written, then YABU for having chosen to spend money on a PE kit which went against the uniform policy. Ditto the book thing.

The point where they are being unreasonable is over your son's mask exemption. It's tiring and potentially embarrassing to have to justify himself all the time. Maybe you could suggest that they have an equivalent to the sunflower lanyard which would identify exempt pupils. YABVU to call the staff 'self appointed Covid Marshalls' however. School staff have had the responsibilty to enforce mask wearing added to an already heavy work load. It is in no way self-appointed, it is an unwanted additional burden.

No it's not the case at all. There hasn't been a definite "they must wear" and "they must not wear" at anytime, it was black sportswear. Iirc, someone did ask at transition evening about small.logos and were told as long as the item was mostly black, sportswear and they wore the logo rugby or polo top underneath it was OK. I don't think there are any new staff or role changes. As I said the book thing is OK, but points for forgetting when previously they didn't receive points and could either go and grab one from the shelf or library, or get on with some other work, is a overreaction.

I think my concern as well is that these kids have, for the most part, had no routine or stringent rules since March. I do get them to be well behaved at home, but compared to school we are relaxed like most. So going back into school, and lots of changes down to covid restrictions, and new points for all sorts where points didn't exist before could've been handled better or with leeway. It's just been instant from the word go. The school was a supportive relaxed environment which was why I chose it, I didn't want a school that stressed my kids out and left them in constant alert and miserable. Neither of them is very happy at the moment at all and that's such a shame.

What size of logo that is? Can you just remove it, cover with a patch or ink it out?

@CatsArePeopleToo

What size of logo that is? Can you just remove it, cover with a patch or ink it out?

Possibly but the arms have stripes and those are offensive now. I nearly bought her a Nike one, wish I had now! She is into her sweatshirts like most of them are so she bought herself a Kappa one with birthday money (I was quite surprised to see those make a come back) so that's a no go. She also has a vintage criminal damage one as she only wears slogans or black stuff due to being the new equivalent of a skater/goth kid. Everything has logos. I must say, I wouldn't mind if it was a plain black sweatshirt as those are cheap and I would've popped to Primark men's department (she won't wear them unless they come to her knees so it's definitely not a case of wearing stuff to tight or short with her at least), they have to be school fleece logo and nothing else.

If they're unhappy and you are too, could you keep them at home? Nothing is worth this much hassle and I'm sure the teachers would be able to provide work and on-line catch ups.

@LovelyLovelyMe

If they're unhappy and you are too, could you keep them at home? Nothing is worth this much hassle and I'm sure the teachers would be able to provide work and on-line catch ups.

Well no, not really, I feel their education suffered immensely down to lockdown, we didn't have any video or live lessons throughout and not much interaction from school either. I just wish they would read the room a bit and calm down! And I totally get that a lot of teachers are shitting themselves about catching the virus. However, I wouldn't take my concern on my kids being back in school out on them, so I don't expect them to likewise take out their annoyance on the kids. That's the only thing I can really think of because as I say previously it was relaxed, not to the point of mass disobedience and rudeness but they acted with sense regards things. Now they give out points like Oprah gives out prizes to her audience and it's sad to see the kids all coming home looking miserable. DS has been in tears most evenings, he really cares too much about his reputation and he tries doubly hard to behave and follow the rules and stuff because he has SEN. My DD isn't as bothered but she does get miffed on some stuff, she also doesn't want to end up with a chest infection which she could pass on to DS as he would be very unwell

Im finding pe kit a little annoying at the moment, we bought the school logo t shirt, school shorts and pe pumps for ds4 as asked to at start of term as well as the logo pe bag. We were informed on friday they will have to wear the school colour joggers preferred in a colour we would never own and black strap trainers to be worn on pe days. I've spent all weekend looking and the only option are the joggers which are worn for nursery and with a logo. Just wish they had told us to hold off on pe kit until they decided what was going on, as have wasted 20 quid there. Have decided i am going to send him in the less preferred colour joggers as he owns a pair and i have no time now

@Meerkatmummy4 I think you're right. If schools just said they must have this and nothing else before the year started then fine, no argument, would've been sorted. And look at the length of time off where they had the opportunity!

To bring all these changes in a month into a new term after six months off, in the midst of a huge financial and health crisis, is daft!

Although, I did message a teacher who gave DS a demerit for being 1 minute late for class, explaining if she checked her student log he is able to be given a grace period due to his lung conditions and the fact he was over the other side of the huge blocks of buildings in the one way system, I said I felt the school was being petty knowing sometimes they can be way over the other side of the site (school has different three storey blocks per subject, they are well spaced, and the one way system is huge and confusing, his Form Tutor said he gets confused as well), and after 2 weeks back it's ridiculous to ruin their record over something beyond their control. She sent a snotty email back two weeks later (which in itself is rude) saying how dare I say she was petty and she will not respond to me again if I use "language like that". You'd think I had called her a rude word!

It's so sad and disappointing as it was a great school, two very happy kids and DS couldn't wait to go back. He still thinks the world of his form tutor so that's good, but I just think we've all got more concerning stuff going on. And yes they're probably miffed at being forced back into a delicate situation, but then if I don't send them I face a fine and court action. I'm going to take my displeasure with me when I vote, not against the staff or kids.

Yanbu. So many threads on here of late making me so sad for our dc. We really seem to have lost sight of what matters: here we are in the middle of a pandemic facing huge social and economic upheaval and some people still want to focus on strict uniform rules and dress codes as if that's important. And anyone dissenting gets shot down. It's horrible.

@unmarkedbythat

Yanbu. So many threads on here of late making me so sad for our dc. We really seem to have lost sight of what matters: here we are in the middle of a pandemic facing huge social and economic upheaval and some people still want to focus on strict uniform rules and dress codes as if that's important. And anyone dissenting gets shot down. It's horrible.

Yes it really is. We all know the huge mental health issues that young people are facing down to the pandemic, to throw pointless uniform stuff and late by under 2 minutes rules in is just unnecessarily adding to it when schools really should be supporting the kids right now and saying, you know, we get you, we understand.

The pe kit is often an issue - my kids schools all had the no logo rules buried in the uniform code, was only enforced sporadically. As for masks, can he really not wear one in the corridor - sen doesn't mean that you don't have to follow rules, my dd is autistic and wears masks because we told her she had to

@movingonup20

The pe kit is often an issue - my kids schools all had the no logo rules buried in the uniform code, was only enforced sporadically. As for masks, can he really not wear one in the corridor - sen doesn't mean that you don't have to follow rules, my dd is autistic and wears masks because we told her she had to

You may have missed it but I did explain that he did attempt to, then he had such a huge dizzy spell he got sent to the school nurse and she said, no, no more masks. His consultant had said he would find it really difficult too. He has such complex things that all effect the other things you see but to the naked eye he just looks like every other kid. He does look a bit pale and grey under the eyes when he is spiking an illness but if you glanced quick you'd never know.