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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do we have an obligation to care for family?

42 replies

JuanNil · 04/10/2020 12:37

I asked this question months ago on another website, nothing like MN, but the responses were vehemently in disagreement with me. Also, to clarify, I'm not talking about me helping my family, so it's nothing to do with me being a heartless cow towards my loved ones. I’m staying well away, I’m just pondering.

FIL is in his mid seventies and has two older siblings still living, one older brother and one older sister. He had many more siblings who sadly passed away over the years. He gets on well with his sister who I'll call Mary.

FIL's brother 'Mark' is a vile, vile man. From what I've gleaned from previous conversations, he was not only physically abusive towards FIL when they were younger, but he is also verbally and physically abusive now towards everybody. He also smokes several packets a day, drinks himself stupid, swears with every second word, and he has absolutely no desire to take care of himself or his flat. Once he visited the house, toddler DC were playing on the floor and he asked if anybody had a lighter because he wanted to smoke in the front room. When I said he can’t do that, he mumbled profanities under his breath and didn’t stay much longer after that.

So earlier this year when Mark had a stroke and ended up hospitalised (pre Covid) he called FIL to tell him. Then he called Mary. FIL really didn't want to do much to help, but Mary insisted that he did so because he's family. Mary lives in a different country, Mark and FIL live closer to each other. So FIL had to clean Mark's flat (please understand, this was a horror movie level of filth), buy Mark new furniture, pick him up from the hospital, make sure he had gas and electric, and regularly go to visit him to make sure he's okay.

He very obviously did NOT want to do this. He doesn't like his brother at all, and I don't blame him!!the stress it caused him was unbelievable.

AIBU to think that he should have said "fuck off, you made your bed now lie in it"? Or when it comes to family, do you wash all of this under the bridge and help regardless?

OP posts:
Asterion · 04/10/2020 12:40

You do what you have to do to feel comfortable with yourself.

Your FIL didn't have to do what he did. He agreed to, then he did it.

Perhaps you haven't had the experience of relations/parents of that age yet? Most of us end up doing very stressful stuff because we think it's the right thing to do, for us.

rainkeepsfallingdown · 04/10/2020 12:44

When it comes to family, I tend to consider what the other person would do if the situation was reversed (even if there is zero likelihood of that scenario actually happening).

In this case, if I was FIL, I'd have left Mark at the mercy of the hospital and social workers.

WeGoHigh · 04/10/2020 12:44

I don’t think there could ever be one blanket rule or right or wrong for this. If helping for your own peace of mind is what you want to do, that’s fine. If walking away is what you choose for your own peace of mind, that’s also fine.

Gancanny · 04/10/2020 12:45

Obligation and guilt are powerful feelings and many people end up doing what they think they should do rather than what they actually want to do.

I don't think anyone should have to care for another person if they don't want to, on the opposite side of that though there are people who do want to care for family members but can't because of work or finances (e.g., the rate of Carers' Allowance is pitifully low).

Original poster
JuanNil · 04/10/2020 12:45

I have had to. But I loved that relation and there was no way I would have left them to struggle. Even people I'm not too keen on, I'd care for. But FIL was told in no uncertain terms by his sister that he had to. And he hated every second of it. And Mark has now gone back to smoking and drinking and leaving food to rot in his flat. Where does it end?

OP posts:
MereDintofPandiculation · 04/10/2020 12:45

You do what you have to do to feel comfortable with yourself. This. And add in what you need to do to be the role model you want to be for your children.

Asterion · 04/10/2020 12:46

Well I guess your FIL's relationship with his sister was more important to him than not helping out his brother.

There will be layers and history to all this that others maybe can't understand.

LakieLady · 04/10/2020 12:47

I wouldn't have done anything for Mark, he sounds like a thoroughly nasty piece of work,

Leaannb · 04/10/2020 12:48

FIL had the right to say no. He chose not too. Yoir question is going to be extremely hard to answer because it literally comes down to how much we feel we owe our family members...
I would have never answered the phone. So YANBU

rainkeepsfallingdown · 04/10/2020 12:49

@JuanNil

I have had to. But I loved that relation and there was no way I would have left them to struggle. Even people I'm not too keen on, I'd care for. But FIL was told in no uncertain terms by his sister that he had to. And he hated every second of it. And Mark has now gone back to smoking and drinking and leaving food to rot in his flat. Where does it end?
Do you think Mary would have helped if she lived nearer?

It's very easy to judge when you're not actually there.

TyroBurningDownTheCloset · 04/10/2020 12:50

I agree with Asterion - it's very possible FIL got involved for Mary's sake.

user15412486546 · 04/10/2020 12:51

As far as I am concerned, once a person has chosen to abuse you then they cease to be a member of your family and you owe them nothing.

I mean actual abuse, not somebody being grumpy once and a dramatic person calling the language abusive or some other misuse of that word.

Original poster
JuanNil · 04/10/2020 12:51

"Do you think Mary would have helped if she lived nearer?"

Oh, good question. And the answer is absolutely not. She has her own life and her own priorities. She's happy to sit and tell others what they must do for the sake of the family, but she never gets her hands dirty.

OP posts:
Brefugee · 04/10/2020 12:51

Under those circs I'd have told Mary to come and do it herself. Depending on her reply it may have ruined our relationship.

But i would also have had zero of a relationship with an abusive sibling anyway.

zigaziga · 04/10/2020 12:53

I know of a woman who died recently who was a complete nightmare for many decades and a lot fell to her sister, elderly by the end, and I always felt so sorry for her.
The woman was an alcoholic and caused a lot of problems and the sister always had to arrange people to clear up the mess she caused and was the one liaising with the police and adult social care. It was horrendous the way it defined the sister’s life.

rainkeepsfallingdown · 04/10/2020 12:54

@JuanNil

"Do you think Mary would have helped if she lived nearer?"

Oh, good question. And the answer is absolutely not. She has her own life and her own priorities. She's happy to sit and tell others what they must do for the sake of the family, but she never gets her hands dirty.

It's starting to sound as if FIL probably had quite a difficult time growing up. Poor bloke. I hope the family he has created himself has brought him more joy.
pointythings · 04/10/2020 12:55

I think Mary had no right to guilt your FIL into helping his brother and she shouldn't have done it. She basically made it impossible for him to say no.

And we are under no obligation to help a relative - it's up to us to take that decision, or not, and live with the consequences. Dsis and I set very clear boundaries about what we would and would not do for our DM when she was busy drinking herself to death after our father died - we got a lot of pressure from her neighbours about how we should take her in to live with us (because introducing an alcoholic into a family is such a great idea) but we stuck to ensuring her care workers were up to date, got her finances looked after so she couldn't be scammed, and supported a mental health act assessment when she got so much worse she was sectionable. We did a lot, it caused us immense stress, but we both had red lines.

comingintomyown · 04/10/2020 12:56

I wouldn’t have helped Mark in any way shape or form and I would have told Mary it was a matter for her what she did. I am not big on the concept of family trumping all else

DishingOutDone · 04/10/2020 13:12

So your FiL got his brother sorted out and back home, regardless of the brother's appalling behaviour. So I'd say he's done his bit and it was an act of kindness. The problem now is can FiL be strong enough to say no in future?

Its obvious to me he has no obligation to his brother, but clearly he feels he does, and with the sister piling it on too - well, its going to be hard. Do you and your partner want to help FiL to resist?

Mummyoflittledragon · 04/10/2020 13:14

I hope your Fil has learned something from this. No he should not have helped his brother out. Mary should have helped out or stayed out of it. As she didn’t it makes me wonder if Mark isn’t the only bully.

SmudgeButt · 04/10/2020 13:15

Oh lordy!! I am a lot like Mary!!! Telling my brothers how to look after my mom!!!!

But to the point - FiL should tell his brother that due to escalating covid restrictions he can't come and help but have called social services to come out to set up care for him.

And then he should change his phone number.

Original poster
JuanNil · 04/10/2020 13:20

@DishingOutDone yes, very much so. Occasionally I said to him 'you don't have to do this you know', and because I've worked as a carer in the past I had some advice for him to get help for Mark without inconveniencing himself. But his response was always "If I do that, I'll never hear the end of it". I didn't want to push it because I got the impression that he would feel guilty if anything happened to Mark. So that's when I started wondering why he should even feel that guilt in the first place. I have a brother who physically assaulted me and unfortunately, if he was ever in the same position, the best he would get from me would be a referral to a care service 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
MushMonster · 04/10/2020 13:29

I think in this particular case, your FIL helping Mark to find someone to care for him, social workers if he is entitled, or clean the house will be enough. I do not think he has to do it himself, specially if this is stressfull to him in any way.

Lamantequilla2 · 04/10/2020 13:32

How wide a net are you casting the net to include "family" ?

An elderly retired relative who was ill. Contacted me suggesting that I look after his elderly partner when he had passed away. Their children had emigrated years previously. I lived hundreds of miles away. We didn't have a close relationship. The partner went into a care home.

Maybe I should have done more ?

I have lived with some guilt

Original poster
JuanNil · 04/10/2020 13:42

Hmmm, @Lamantequilla2 I would probably say mother, father, siblings, grandparents, aunts and uncles. Some people have great relationships with their cousins but I wouldn't automatically group that in with the rest. Some people's cousins are their best friends and others barely recognise each other as being related!

OP posts: