Do we have an obligation to care for family?

[JuanNil]

I asked this question months ago on another website, nothing like MN, but the responses were vehemently in disagreement with me. Also, to clarify, I'm not talking about me helping my family, so it's nothing to do with me being a heartless cow towards my loved ones. I’m staying well away, I’m just pondering.

FIL is in his mid seventies and has two older siblings still living, one older brother and one older sister. He had many more siblings who sadly passed away over the years. He gets on well with his sister who I'll call Mary.

FIL's brother 'Mark' is a vile, vile man. From what I've gleaned from previous conversations, he was not only physically abusive towards FIL when they were younger, but he is also verbally and physically abusive now towards everybody. He also smokes several packets a day, drinks himself stupid, swears with every second word, and he has absolutely no desire to take care of himself or his flat. Once he visited the house, toddler DC were playing on the floor and he asked if anybody had a lighter because he wanted to smoke in the front room. When I said he can’t do that, he mumbled profanities under his breath and didn’t stay much longer after that.

So earlier this year when Mark had a stroke and ended up hospitalised (pre Covid) he called FIL to tell him. Then he called Mary. FIL really didn't want to do much to help, but Mary insisted that he did so because he's family. Mary lives in a different country, Mark and FIL live closer to each other. So FIL had to clean Mark's flat (please understand, this was a horror movie level of filth), buy Mark new furniture, pick him up from the hospital, make sure he had gas and electric, and regularly go to visit him to make sure he's okay.

He very obviously did NOT want to do this. He doesn't like his brother at all, and I don't blame him!!the stress it caused him was unbelievable.

AIBU to think that he should have said "fuck off, you made your bed now lie in it"? Or when it comes to family, do you wash all of this under the bridge and help regardless?

Oldest female currently 117
Could have potentially 7 generations to look after & support
I believe some countries have made it compulsory to look after their elder family members
That is why there is also no retirement age in some countries in relation to employment( separate to state pension age)

Everyone has their own boundaries

@JuanNil what would happen if you told him to ignore Mary, and then told Mary that Mark had been referred to adult social services and would get any care he needed from them?

@DishingOutDone I think that would cause a lot of problems for FIL. He seems to feel the need to appease everybody in his family. So I would never insist that he takes my advice, I've gently tried coaxing him to be kinder to himself and let other people get on with it, but he really doesn't want to do that because he thinks his sister would make his life miserable. And I think he's right, she would.

Well you are doing all you can then, try to help FiL protect himself but short telling Mary to fuck off ...?

He seems to feel the need to appease everybody in his family.
There's your answer. It is what it is, because he is who he is. If appeasing Mary is more important or more significant to him than not helping Mark, then that's what he is going to do. It's not a blanket rule: it's how he responds in this situation.

We are going through a very different older relatives / caring / etc situation with FIL and MIL, but again, it is what it is because my FIL is who he is. I wouldn't do the same in his shoes, I hope that DH wouldn't either but FIL, like yours, is making the choices that his values / beliefs / personality / relationships with his siblings / history / self-worth / self-esteem drive him towards. A different person would tell Mary to piss off. But he clearly can't, so it is what it is.

OP someone needs to give Mary a shake and tell her to either do it herself or STFU. Maybe?

@Brefugee oh don't tempt me

do it....

on a more serious note. In my in-laws we had this. 2 daughters taking care of the mum, one contributing only money when needed and the two sons (the absolute favourites) doing fuck all except turning up twice a year to be feted and celebrated. It was sick making.

So i said if that kind of scenario comes up again, I'll be the 3rd sister type and no amount of guilt tripping will make me change my mind.

@Lamantequilla2 Nice try on his part - but why should you feel guilty? Their children clearly didn't.

"It's starting to sound as if FIL probably had quite a difficult time growing up. Poor bloke. I hope the family he has created himself has brought him more joy."

I believe it has. He's absolutely in love with his grandchildren, and since I met DP he's started to get back into his hobbies, like gardening and DIY. When I met him, he would sit on the sofa all day watching tv and sleep on the sofa at night with the tv on too. Now, he waits for DC to come down and has CBeebies on ready waiting for them, and spends a lot of time telling me what improvements he wants to make to the house for DC, DP and I. He seems genuinely happy.

So now, when he's having to traipse around after his ungrateful sod of a brother, he tends to give me the impression that he has other things he'd much rather be doing with his time. And good for him! I lost my dad in my early teens, but since meeting FIL I've felt like I have a father again. He is a wonderful person and he doesn't deserve this at all . However, as people have said, it's what he's comfortable doing, and it would be better than him consuming himself with misplaced guilt. At least he can say he did the best he could. So I would never coerce him into stopping.

The consensus on the other site was very much "you must help them, because they're family, no matter what they've done to you". I expected a range of opinions there, but I was very surprised to see that everybody on that forum felt it was a binding yet unwritten law for one to have to look after a relative despite any history of abuse.

No not in this situation.
I'd help mine without a second thought as I know they'd do the same for me.
I think you reap what you sow in all relationships.
If someone is selfish, abusive or unappreciated me I wouldn't help it is a two way street.
It is very well for Mary giving instructions from a far.

I don't think anybody should have to care for any one because they are family , to personally would care for my parents as long as I could ,but I was a nurse and worked in elderly care ,so I think I could cope with most things up to a point ,but I wouldn't expect anyone else to do that I'm not sure I would care for extended members of my family other than my parents and my children ,( I have a disabled child).

No, people do make their choices. For instance, if family members choose to move further away, when they could stay or choose to move closer, they cannot expect a high level of support or involvement. And some people are hard to help because of addictions or mental health problems. Not their fault but no good if it emotionally or financially bankrupts the helper.

It depends if you are prepared to lose your relationships with other people.

I lost my siblings (although I've realised since they are no big loss) by refusing to have my father, who abused us massively as children, in my life for the last few weeks of his life.

I can understand why your FIL helped Mark to protect his relationship with Mary. It's hard to say no when it risks everything.

@Brefugee

Under those circs I'd have told Mary to come and do it herself. Depending on her reply it may have ruined our relationship.

But i would also have had zero of a relationship with an abusive sibling anyway.

ime blood is not thicker than water, dh has several shitty relatives and one is his db and another his bil. neither of us would piss on them if they were on fire tbh. we have no contact, bliss.

@Lamantequilla2

How wide a net are you casting the net to include "family" ?

An elderly retired relative who was ill. Contacted me suggesting that I look after his elderly partner when he had passed away. Their children had emigrated years previously. I lived hundreds of miles away. We didn't have a close relationship. The partner went into a care home.

Maybe I should have done more ?

I have lived with some guilt

No, I don’t think you have anything to feel guilty about (unless we’re missing part of the picture e.g. he left you a very generous inheritance). You live hundreds of miles away and, even if you lived next door, the partner’s children should have more responsibility than you.