To ask how you define 'class'?

[mygrandadsvest]

Someone at work this week described me as "white middle class woman".

I am white and I am a woman but I would never have described myself as middle class. If you'd have asked me Id be working class.

Absolutely not a stealth boast but for context I am in a senior management position married to a lorry driver who earns less than half as much. Both kids in state education, DD1 goes to a local grammar. We own our own home but with a £250k mortgage. I was a teenage mum and got lucky that my mum really helped out with childcare so I could complete a degree whilst working. We both drive 10/11 year old cars and live to our means as things have not always been financially stable. If we didn't work or split up we'd soon be in trouble- that makes us working class right!? I speak 'properly' which I think lulls people into a false perception of my background!

I was almost offended at being described as middle class and not really sure why!

I am in a senior management position

Middle class then.

Cant be white collar working class

I was almost offended at being described as middle class and not really sure why!

Context is key. Do you feel it was a criticism?

Posted too soon - why did they bring up the fact you are white?

You’re middle class.

Put it this way are you alowed in your workers union?

I can see why your situation feels complex, but given you work in senior management, and it was someone at work making the comment, you must be able to see why they would assume this?

I think that many people endeavour for their kids to have more than they did, so very low paid labour jobs in one generation move to better paid jobs in next generation - and eventually, whilst your roots may be working class, you have shifted into a different bracket.

It's not an exact science/particularly helpful though.

Class, traditionally, is about old money vs new money. Some would not see a salary or profession as being an enabler for climbing up the class ladder, but really to most it doesn’t matter much.
Another interpretation of class, as extensively debated in a recent thread, is how people spend their money, i.e money cannot buy class. Understand is better than flashy and showy.

@Elsewyre I'm a senior manager in HR- they definitely wouldn't let me in! 🤫🤣

The context was that they intimated I didn't understand racial bias as I'm a white middle class woman.

Not sure why I'm offended- probably because I've worked bloody hard and feel like middle class is a privilege rather than a reward iyswim?

Why do you even care? What difference does it make to your life what "class" somebody else thinks you are?

Well, what did your grandparents do?

OP, being offended at being described as middle class, means there is some insecurity in your mind. Any reason you felt offended?

Of course, no woman has ever experienced oppression, prejudice, or lack of privilege, have they?

@bsc my grandads were both mechanics, one grandmother worked in the post office and one was a nurse.

My father is an electrician- albeit with his own firm. My mother never worked. Grew up in an ex council house.

Ironically my husband is the one with 'family money' (will all be gone before it gets bequeathed to him and his four brothers )

If you got made redundant and were unemployed would you then be a different class?

It was a woman who made the comment, I think the main point she was making was that I'm white. Perhaps I missed the point

I’m not from here, but after living here 10 years it seems to me to go like this: In the UK apparently you can be as rich as you like, but still be working class if that’s what you grow up as?

In other countries it’s much more normal to acknowledge that you’ve ‘moved’ class, or are not working class any more If you earn a lot of money/your social standing has changed.

I can’t imagine someone from my mother’s country being offended at being called middle class rather than working class. They would probably see it as a compliment.

Did you ever watch the John Prescott TV documentary on class? Have a watch of this clip...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ylBn9eEF3Uw

The way I understand it -
Upper = old money with connections.
Upper middle = new money with connections.
Middle = well off professional, going back a few generations.
Lower middle = professional job, but working class roots, or manual/service job, with professional family roots.
Working = manual or service jobs, and family history of the same.

You sound like lower middle to me!

@NachoNachoMan I did have a giggle at "I'm not working class, I don't work.."

[quote mygrandadsvest]@Elsewyre I'm a senior manager in HR- they definitely wouldn't let me in! 🤫🤣

The context was that they intimated I didn't understand racial bias as I'm a white middle class woman.

Not sure why I'm offended- probably because I've worked bloody hard and feel like middle class is a privilege rather than a reward iyswim? [/quote]
The reason you're offended is because people only say this sort of thing to be offensive. Having a go at you OP, and scoring points in what is currently a socially acceptable way.

We all have to start ignoring toxic little shits like this, and the trend will die out. Roll your eyes next time and say "grow up sweetie".

I’m not from here, but after living here 10 years it seems to me to go like this: In the UK apparently you can be as rich as you like, but still be working class if that’s what you grow up as?

Pretty much, although obsession with class seems to be peculiar to a minority on MN and not something real people are concerned about.

It’s much more complicated than just money or even work. It’s faamily, it’s attitudes, it’s expectations and experiences. But in the ABC1 scale, you’d certainly be middle class.

I have a very working class background, I was the first person in my family to go onto higher education, work in an office. I’m a civil servant.

Both my brothers are in manual type work. One of them has a partner with a very senior job in banking, moved to Australia and has a great lifestyle. The other is completely baffled by us and our lifestyle choices. If reading books, drinking wine, shopping in Sainsburys and going to the theatre make me middle class then I guess I’m middle class.
I still think of myself as working class because that is where my roots are but I wouldnt be offended if anyone referred to me as middle class. My life is a world anyone from my mum’s and even more so my nan’s. It would be ridiculous not to recognise that I have benefitted from social mobility.
Trade union membership by the way has nothing to do with being working class. Anyone can join the trade union relevant to their job, ‘managers’ are not excluded.

I don't. It's bullshit.

I really dislike these threads, surely we should be moving past ‘class’, we should all be able to strive to achieve our goals regardless of background. I came from ‘working class’parents in a council house, both myself and sister went to uni and have done well in life and our own DC are at uni/ have good careers, Id never describe anyone as any class, you are what you are as an individual. I’m glad I have the background I have as we had no step up/money/ parents who know such and such, just worked hard, no entitlement.