Manager doesn't believe in equal pay for women ihbu?

lyne123 · 2020-10-04T07:55:24+00:00

During casual conversation my manager told me he doesn't believe in equal pay for women due to being off work for sometimes after having babies. I was taken aback especially being back from maternity not long ago myself . I left it at that. But it's been playing in my mind since. Was he being unreasonable?

BuffaloCauliflower · 04/10/2020 08:56

Yes of course he was! And I’d question if I wanted to keep working with him.

Tappering · 04/10/2020 08:59

I'm female and don't have any children - so how does that work according to his logic?

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 04/10/2020 09:00

Twat!!

ComicePear · 04/10/2020 09:00

Hasn't he heard of shared parental leave? Explain to him that men can also now take time off after becoming a dad.

Of course he is being unreasonable by the way.

KetoPenguin · 04/10/2020 09:02

It's called sexism and is very common. That's why we still need feminism in 2020.

Sarahandduck18 · 04/10/2020 09:04

Plenty of men and women think like that.

Sexist discrimination against women is still rife.

No wonder the pay gap still exists!

OoohTheStatsDontLie · 04/10/2020 09:04

Wow. Well he is sexist and also a twat for voicing his opinion on something that's actually illegal to put into practice.
And as others have said there is now shared parental leave (although for some reason it's not taken up very much) and plenty of men, where I work anyway, change their hours after children to fit in with family life and take time off for kids illness, school things etc. How did you respond?

Original poster

lyne123 · 04/10/2020 09:05

Hi buffalo, I agree, thing is at the mmt I feel I cannot afford to be to too argumentative at work. And I need my job! Tapering, I though that not all women have kids also plus some men can take paternity leaves nowadays.

OP posts:

SusieSusieSoo · 04/10/2020 09:08

Interesting concept given we've had equal pay legislation in this country for 50 years! Obv there is still a pay gap - equal pay day is in early/mid November each year - after that date women effectively work for free compared to men (look at the Fawcett Society website)

No words to describe your boss!

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 04/10/2020 09:12

@SusieSusieSoo

Interesting concept given we've had equal pay legislation in this country for 50 years! Obv there is still a pay gap - equal pay day is in early/mid November each year - after that date women effectively work for free compared to men (look at the Fawcett Society website)

No words to describe your boss!

Technically only 45 years. The equal pay act of 1970 didn’t actually come in until 1975.

My mum graduated from university in 1972. She went for an interview with a bank. She was told that (as a graduate) if she was a man she would start off at manager level with a nice big salary, a car and access to a cheap mortgage. As a woman she would start off on the counter and then “they would see”.

She joined the civil service instead!

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 04/10/2020 09:21

Theres not a lot of context here. Is he struggling to articulate something? It sounds like what he's getting at is that the gender pay gap isnt really driven by (for example) men getting paid more for the same work as women - this doesnt really happen in the UK as it's illegal. What happens is men & women's earnings are extremely similar through 20s, then as people enter their 30s and have children, women tend to drop to part time or reduce their level of commitment to work.

I'm a good example of this. Since I returned to work after having children I have chosen to work less - eg I am in at 9 and out of the door at 5pm on the dot, and i generally give a bit less to my employer. My male colleague continues to do longer hours and generally work harder. When a promotion came up last year, he got it and that was absolutely fair, he's worked for it more than me.

I think people confuse "equal pay" eg being paid the same for the same work, with the idealised notion that on a population level it is possible for me and women's earnings to be broadly the same. It isnt as long as women work less than men. Obviously in some cases that isnt by choice and that's an issue, but in many cases it is by choice and that's ok.

Original poster

lyne123 · 04/10/2020 09:27

Thank you for your replies, it's nice to know that he was unreasonable! I feel as women, we have it difficult! If you stay at home. For few years after kids you can rarely go back to same job, if you come back after maternity you get the stress, the half joking comments about your nice holidays. If you don't have /don't want kids you can potentially be discriminated at the job interview with people like my boss.

OP posts:

Musereader · 04/10/2020 09:39

Until that happens - the woman having children, he can't know that it is going to for an individual woman. I was working for 5 years at the same place before I got pregnant and at that was a surprise. I gave as much as anyone else in that job. And in that length of time men at the same level as me have left for other jobs but I'm still there, loyal because of the maternity leave. 50 people started this job at the same time as me, maybe a third of them men, and 2 group transfers later there are 8 people left -all but one are women

He is seeing that women have a built in reason to leave eventually. And in a world where you had the same employer for all or most of your life that is a big thing, losing any investment the employer makes so pay less to minimise that. But now when most people stay at one employer for an average of 5 years if he does not consider women or pay them the same he is shoot himself in the foot because he may miss out on a really good employee. All other reasons for leaving are equal so sickness, family reasons, new job, will happen with as much frequency to men and he may hire a man to have an employee assured of staying several years but they may leave in a few for any reason.

sashh · 04/10/2020 09:39

I though that not all women have kids also plus some men can take paternity leaves nowadays.

I know of at least two same sex couples (men) who have adopted and one has taken the full adoption leave.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 04/10/2020 09:40

Does he have kids?

Heatherjayne1972 · 04/10/2020 09:52

Well his opinion doesn’t override the law - I’d have just done an eyebrow raise and said ‘mm interesting’ to him

women and men should get paid the same for the same job - it’s the law
But As some one else said women tend to choose to work less when children arrive so it looks like we get paid less

You boss sounds like a former boss of mine who couldn’t understand why women needed to be educated apparently we ‘all just give it up anyway when we have babies’!

AgentProvocateur · 04/10/2020 09:55

I can’t actually believe that you had to come on here and ask if he was being unreasonable. It’s as if feminism never happened.

TW2013 · 04/10/2020 09:58

I would be keeping a record at home of the dates and content of any such conversations just in case you or any other woman ever needs to take him to an employment discrimination tribunal.

Womencanlift · 04/10/2020 09:59

If that was me I would have laughed and said I hope HR don’t hear you say that and then held his gaze a little bit longer than was uncomfortable to make it known that I had his cards marked

SueEllenMishke · 04/10/2020 10:09

Of course he's wrong - did you really need to ask?

SuitedandBooted · 04/10/2020 10:14

He's not unusual to think that, sadly.

I'm surprised he actually said it out loud!

Misbeehived · 04/10/2020 10:15

I hit YABU by accident I’m hoping that’s the case for everyone else voting that way. It is possibly an explanation of trends at a macro level but if “don’t believe in it” suggests you actually think individual women should be paid less. YADBU. He is BU and I hope a tribunal doesn’t need to tell him so one day.

ivykaty44 · 04/10/2020 10:24

Did I wake up in 1970 ?

PlanetSlattern · 04/10/2020 10:31

as people enter their 30s and have children, women tend to drop to part time or reduce their level of commitment to work.

But don't you think this is often because it's expected of women with children, @NoIDontWatchLoveIsland? If you have a partner, have they also chosen to work less? If not, is that because they're the higher earner?

There are layers and layers of societal discrimination that leads to the "choices" we make – from the academic choices girls make to the jobs we choose (and how much they pay) and the hours we work.

The point about discrimination is that it all comes back to choice. Of course, if we choose to work less and earn less that's fine, but if we are forced to earn less because no-one else is going to pick up the slack on the domestic front, it is not. Even less so if all women's choices are assumed by other people (usually men) and those who have made the choice not to have children are punished.

Men don't (usually) have to choose between having children, or a good salary. I'm going to hazard a guess your boss hasn't, OP.

I want to caveat this by saying it goes the other way too. I'm sure a lot would like to work less and spend more time with their families, but feel societal pressures stand in the way of that. It will never be "fair" unless flexible working is afforded to all, regardless of whether they have children or not.

PlanetSlattern · 04/10/2020 10:32

*a lot of MEN, that should say.