Would this make me a controlling mum?

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Been in MN for years but I have never braved AIBU. Not exactly braving it now as I am name changing but I genuinely want to bounce off you wise lot.
So, 13 YO DD. We've always been close but a couple of years ago she started being, well, a normal teenager I guess, separating from me and her dad, being extremely secretive, not being affectionate or talkative, exploring sexuality (came out as pansexual, then kind of settled on gay)... All fairly normal I guess, but more worrying behaviours also came along, like some self-harming, sugar bingeing, and general not looking after herself. Some unnecessary behaviours also that would put her in conflict with her father and I, like for example dumping back in her wardrobe used soiled clothes, including dirty underwear. We have found countless empty packets of sweets in her drawers, wardrobe, bags, etc, ridiculous amounts. DD has asked to see a counsellor, we have got her a counsellor, she also has extra curricular activities that she has chosen, inc art and drama. She has friends. I do realise that there's an underlying unhappiness there and we are trying to do everything we can to support her. We have spoken to school, GP, therapist...
DD gets weekly pocket money and has a henry card. This means that she has disposable income and is free to buy whatever sweets she wants on her way to school and back. We have had discussions about her wellbeing, anxiety, sugar and health a zillion times. We do not restrict food at home and are pretty casual about treats. The amount of sugar she is buying though is ridiculous, and I am thinking now that she needs to leave her henry card with us during the week and have it on weekends. I know that she could just stock up in pounland for the week but I don't think she will, plus it's easier to monitor.
I should add that getting DD to exercise is a chore, and that she is not a slim girl. Don't get me wrong, she is not fat, but she is without doubt a little overweight and has inherited my propensity to put on weight if I am not careful. I have NEVER given the whole sugar thing this angle and have focused on teeth, wellbeing, healthy choices and the link between anxiety and sugar.
YABU - If I remove DD's henry card during the week I am being really controlling
YANBU - she does not need an endless amount of disposable income to buy sweets and if she cannot pace herself then we need to do it for her

It's no easy for teenage girls these days, for sure. I don't have Instagram or much social media, but it must be awful to be bombarded with unrealistic images of models every day.

@Generallybewildered

Hope your daughter is ok

She sounds very anxious and is binge eating sugar to give her a serotonin hit. Not controlling at all to take the card away. Can you dial it back and agree a sweeties plan for the week? My dd is 12 and a sugar monster. She is okish at regulating herself whereas your dd does not.

Can your dd have a laundry hamper in her room? Then have agreed days to bring it down or help with laundry etc?

She’s 13 not 33. She needs more discipline.

How are the counselling sessions going with your DD?
Maybe if you can get to the root of the problem it will help with the sugar addiction and other issues. Yes I would take away the Henry card if she is not using it responsibly.

It sounds like she needs more than just being told not to spend money on sweets. Treat it as a real addiction and help her to overcome it. She might need help from a counsellor (doesn't sound like the counsellor is doing anything?) and certainly from you. Maybe the whole family could go sugar-free and treat it as a fun shared experience. Find other things she'd like to spend her money on, such as music or books or clothes, and help her budget to save money for something she'd really like as a reward for making these big changes. I would also limit her social media and screen time as this is not going to make her any happier - but spending time with family enjoying shared pursuits may well be a good thing. It sounds like she needs some boundaries and to be pulled closer in to the family. Good luck!

I actually think overindulging in treats is pretty normal for that age - as is a lack of interest in hygiene in relation to the dirty clothes . Also a degree of unhappiness and feelings of not belonging . I’d limit your GoHenry top ups rather than remove the card

I had exactly the same as @eatsleepread with DD1. She was diagnosed at 25! Her room was a health hazard and tidying up was just beyond her.

Could you agree on a set number of sweets each day? Take away the Henry card, buy her a (small) amount of sweets to be had after dinner every day, so she still gets her sugar but in controlled doses. Would she like to take up an activity like horse-riding at the weekends? Animals were the saving of my DD.

And does she really need a counsellor? Or is it what all the 'cool kids' are having this year? Is the counsellor having any notable effect or is it just an hour of pointless navel gazing so that your DD can tell her friends that her counsellor says that her family is shit?

Yes I would take it away. I'd explain that she only gets pocket money when she cleans her room and laundered her own clothes!

I had to double check that I hadn’t written this myself!! My dd is the same. She was diagnosed with autism a few years ago (am not saying your dd is, but is does explain my dd’s issues). My dd does not have the sexuality issue, I don’t think it’s ever occurred to her. She never looks happy about anything - it’s v hard to accept, but we have accepted that she never gets excited. Her room is a tip - I cleaned it thoroughly one day last week - it lasted a day! She squirrels away her dirty undies etc. I know that comparing them won’t actually help you, so I’ll say what we’ve done to help her-
She has to text me before going to the local shop on her way home from school. Once a week I will say yes - as long as she only buys one thing. COVID has helped me massively with this one - she knows I don’t like her going to the shop. Beforehand, she was there almost every day. I’ve swapped big sharing bags of crisps for little ones. Her diet is not brilliant, (like you, we have home cooked meals every night) but there are hardly any sweet things in the house anymore. Could you have a goodie bag of treats at home that she can take one a day from? If all are eaten on day one, then so be it. It is hard when they have money, but over lockdown my dd’s money has built up so now she is more reluctant to spend it on food.

I have recently bought myself a second hand bike so we can go on bike rides (weather permitting) - she is bigger than I would like her to be so I have been trying to encourage her outside more. Also, if she is outside more, she is not home eating!

Her bedroom is a tip. When I’m doing the washing now, I will say to her - I need your washing now please- and she’ll bring me out 1 thing! So I have to say I need your undies please. Annoying, but at least I know things are washed. She will insist that she doesn’t need my help, so I do it behind her back!

I find it really hard to put my foot down with a strong minded 13 year old, but I really do feel like I’m winning the battle! You have to put her health and well-being first. Easier said than done, I know!

Go into her room, find the secreted piles of things and take it off her as a consequence.

If she isn’t mature enough to use a bin of a laundry basket then she isn’t old enough to have the independence of an allowance. Money is earnt, not a given.

I bet she’ll do a 180 on the cleaning front.

As for the exercise? That’s a toughie. You can take the sweets away but it will just become a novelty when she doesn’t have them. Can she try a new club? What about trampolining? Horse riding? Something physical that isn’t ‘exercise’.

You’re not a controlling parent at all you’re a responsible mum!

Normally I'd be worried about the health impact of all this sugar and the little bit of extra weight but in this case it's obviously pathological behaviour. I would probably seek professional help from someone with expertise in bulimia or binge eating disorder to be honest. Restricting her access to sweets may be the right thing to do, it might help her feel in control or it may just lead to her finding other, even more damaging, outlets to cope and self sooth.

Just wanted to add my experience. As a young adult I went through a binge eating phase. It was part of an eating disorder and I ended up coming home from uni as I wasn't managing very well. This had been going on a while and my Mum was aware.
At a really low point she asked me if she should put a padlock on our kitchen cupboard. It was one of the most compassionate responses she had (and she was trying her best). To me I really felt like she got it at that point, that I really couldn't break the cycle on my own and whatever I tried I couldn't stop raiding the cupboards in secret. That I needed some practical help now that wasn't counselling/will power etc etc. That she got how I needed help to stop doing this that wasn't all on me. And I was a mature 19 and had been living away from home for a while.
A 13 year old binging on sugar needs someone to step in. The sooner you can change poor eating habits the better. We all need help and guidance and support to change our behaviour sometimes. As shameful as it was to hear my Mum asking the question about the padlock, it was such a relief too. Good luck.

I think take it away but she doesn't need more chores or discipline she needs you to try to understand why she is eating sweets and why she isn't exercising, and for you to coax her into doing some exercise with you to get to a certain level of fitness to the enable her to feel the benefits so that she will then want to continue.

You need to work out what is behind it all - so:

Sweets - is she craving sugar because:

• she is very tired and not sleeping properly
• her hormones are off whack because of the sugar habit/no exercise/being overweight
• she needs checking by a doctor re diabetes
• she is unhappy (and if so why?) and eating provides temporary relief

etc etc

No exercise - does she think

• she can't do it?
• there is no point?
• everyone else is better at it than her (in which case you can practice some skills)

etc etc

Appropriate chores is fine. Removing card explaining that you want to sort out the above with her because you are worried about the sweets and exercise situation is good.

Have you spoken to her counsellor OP? Obviously the actual content of the sessions is confidential, but I think it would help to discuss some of this with the counsellor and ask advice about how to approach it. You could also contact a binge eating specialist and talk about how to support your DD.

I guess what I'm saying is that taking away her Henry card isn't addressing the root of the issue.

I don’t understand why putting clear boundaries in place would make people think they’re being controlling. Having rules makes children feel safe and protected.

Sorry I have realised you have already said she is unhappy. I think you need to work out why. The fact that she has asked for therapy means she has some awareness of what is going on, possibly. The self harming is so worrying.

Helping her talk about whatever it is, putting words to it, or you working it out and talking to her, will provide relief.

Coaxing her to do exercise with you is a good idea generally I think. Can you both take up jogging or something?

Is there any possibility she is being groomed?

How much sugar are we talking about? I know people have very different ideas so unless you say what she is actually eating it is hard to say if she needs support or if you are worrying about what someone else might think is fairly normal for teenagers.

Yes, take away the card, she's not using it responsibly.
Stop buying sweets, don't have them in the house.
Set her chores to earn a weekly allowance and then go shopping with her. Draw her back into family life. Set more boundaries before it all spirals out of control although I would say that self-harming means it has already.
Check what's she's up to on the internet and discuss anything you think is off/wrong with her. Schools are always giving out advice about this sort of thing if you need any pointers.
She's crying out for help especially as she has asked for a counsellor, but I'd feel a bit wary about this. I don't know how they work for children but would the counsellor 'share' with you or would you be left in the dark?

Around that age I developed extreme depression. I had given up horse riding and swimming and the anxiety and depression crept up. I also had liberal access to junk food. I wish my parents had stressed the importance of a healthy balancef life style instead of intermittently bringing up my weight gain (inevitable from puberty, quitting two active hobbies and comfort eating). I then went the other extreme and developed an eating disorder.

Please kindly, in the frame of her mental health, explain how a healthy balanced lifestyle can help. If she's asked to see a counsellor she must be feeling low.

I think you're focussing on the wrong thing OP. You're fretting about being seen as controlling about her sweet intake. Are you trying to distract yourself from what might be driving her behaviour?

I'm seeing the binge-eating as a symptom, not the problem itself (although the sugar lows will not be doing anything for her moods either). All the following phrases are direct lifts from your post.

Thirteen. Extremely secretive, not being affectionate or talkative. Self-harming. Not looking after herself. Has asked to see a counsellor. Underlying unhappiness.

Read that through a couple of times; it's a list that makes me uneasy. I think you need to concentrate on the reason she's unhappy, and I may well be catastrophising here but I'd be wondering if she's been assaulted, being groomed, in an inappropriate relationship of some sort.

I do t think any of the things you described as ‘fairly normal’ are to be honest.

I’d be concerned that she’s genuinely very unhappy.

The excessive sugar is, in my personal experience, related to pushing aside bad feelings. I smother my upset with food so I don’t feel it. It needs dealing with fast. I’m 42, morbidly obese with an eating disorder. I started the sugar around her age.

What explanation does she give for the dirty clothes? Most teens really care about how the look whether or not it seems like it. I’d find that very concerning.

Read that through a couple of times; it's a list that makes me uneasy. I think you need to concentrate on the reason she's unhappy, and I may well be catastrophising here but I'd be wondering if she's been assaulted, being groomed, in an inappropriate relationship of some sort.

I also wondered this but wasn’t sure if I should articulate it.

Hmm. It's threads like these that make me realise that my way of parenting is very different from that of many other parents. I would not rush in to take the card away immediately, or limit screen time, or any of the other things that are being suggested.

I would have an honest and frank conversation with dd about my concerns. Talk about sugar addiction and why it's problematic. Talk about health impacts, effect on mood etc. Help her to understand why she is bingeing on sugar and to identify healthier strategies for making herself feel good - exercise is a really good one, but there are others. Explain that you need to work together to make the current behaviour stop and offer up some options. One would be to take the card away so that she doesn't have to carry the burden of responsibility. Another would be that dd self-regulates, perhaps with reminders in place to make her think twice before buying anything. See what she thinks, try it for a while and then review. You can make it clear that you might have to remove the card if she can't regulate her own choices, but at least give her the chance to sort it out herself.

Teenagers are not the same as small children. They need to be involved in decisions and solutions, and they need to know that you are on their side. If you pit yourself against them, they will push back. You need to be very clear about the outcome that is required, but work with them on how you're going to get there. If you try to control stuff without doing this, they will just find a way of doing it behind your back instead.

@CherryPavlova

I wonder whether her unhappiness is about a lack of boundaries and structure. Children need to be controlled and guided. Save them to make all decisions results in chaos and misery. They need security of knowing their parents are in charge and will protect them.

A couple of years ago she was eleven - a young child not a normal teenager. It is not normal for a young child to be separating from their parents nor deciding they are pan sexual.

Reading this again, I wonder if it’s even real, it’s so far removed from normal family life. H

I've known I was bisexual since I was 14.