to think mindfulness doesn’t work for everyone?

[notinthestarsigns]

I went to a mindfulness session this evening, it was the first session of a 4 week course and I am going to keep going, but I really don’t think it is for me! I find Yoga and physical exercise is really beneficial for my mental health but this session involved things like holding a raisin in your palm, feeling how light/heavy it is, stretching it and looking at the wrinkles on it. If it does help others, which I’m sure it does, then it’s great that it exists, but unless I’m missing something then I really can’t see me getting into it. I found the Chinese takeaway and glass of wine I had when I got home much more relaxing!

@Eckhart

And if the present is shit, then what

Then shit, but minus the worry about the future and the obsession about the past.

At the risk of stating the obvious - it only works if you need it. If you don’t need it then you won’t see any difference

That's not the case. You can be more present in the moment whenever there's a moment.

If mindfulness is so great that it can take away worries about my parent with cancer, my money worries, my DDs with covid and my job insecurity then I'll eat my hat.

[quote Eckhart]@BrumBoo

Do you think that the concept is a load of bull, ie, not stressing about the future or past, or do you think the way it's being marketed these days is a load of bull?

Hugging it out isn't mindfulness.[/quote]
I never said 'hugging it out' is mindfulness.

I think the concept is as I said, another version of self help books or the affirmation ideologies often peddled at women.

If yiu belive it helps you, then fair enough. I dont agree with programmes that require the force of belief before you've even started, it doesn't deal with the root of the issue, just teaches you ways of pretending everything is fine.

Mindfulness can't do anything for you. You do mindfulness. But not when you're that resistant!

Doesn't work for me. Focusing on raisins is not going to take away fears of WW3 to be honest

@BrumBoo

Yes, it's clear from this thread that it's being marketed poorly because a lot of people don't seem to understand what it is. What are the programmes you've seen forcing people to believe in? There is no belief system in mindfulness. Those programmes must make it sound like a religion.

I have a friend who said she 'gave up worrying'. That's all it is.

Mindfulness isn't some miracle tonic to solve all the world's ills. Neither is it a "pile of shit".

Mindfulness and meditation is more about teaching you to be in the moment and give your mind a break. Asking you to focus on a raisin - or your breathing - brings the focus to the hear and now, and doesn't let you worry about what happened in the past, or what might happen in the future, or think about anything else.

It's a technique which needs practice. People wouldn't write off something like surfing if they tried it once for half an hour and weren't at Olympic standard by the end. No it's not for everyone and I wouldn't want to do it in a hall with loads of other people either. But sitting on my sofa with an app on my phone? Totally different and works well for me.

Mindfulness is a longish process to take you where it really brings the calmness.

The raisin exercise is an introduction to teaching your kind to concentrate on the here and now rather then there and then. People who struggle to let go tend to think all the time,usually about possible scenarios in the future of going over and over the past.

Mindfulness teaches you about focusing on your senses to let go of the overthinking process. When you concentrate on a sound, a feel, a sight and learn to appreciate their worth at this point, you are less likely to be thinking about what you need to cook tonight.

Mindfulness is similar to a diet. To make it worthwhile, you have to introduce the changes in your everyday life forever.

To say it doesn't work would be like going to a weight loss session, making changes for one week, and then saying it's a lot crap because you've only lost 1/2 a pound.

I've been doing for some time and I'm still nowhere near where it will change my life, but it's trying to break over 40 years of overthinking and planning, with the comfort that doing so brings so I accept it will take longer and more discipline but I totally get the concept of it.

@BrazenlyDefying, very similar posts written at the same time!

Mindfulness didn't work for me until I'd had some pretty deep, trauma focused, therapy. I needed someone to help me clear a lot of crap out of my head and show me how to start rewiring my brain first. But now I find mindfulness really useful. I am much calmer and more focused and less irritable when I keep up with my mindfulness practices

I refuse to even attempt to engage with it any more. I realised that it was making me angry - and the anger was lasting for several hours and impacting my mood and work. I know it works for some people, but it’s definitely not for me.

I think there's a lot of preconceptions about what it is, but the fact is, we've all done it and loved it at some point or other. It's just about finding a way to access the same place you go to when you lose yourself in the moment. When, for 30 seconds or so, all there is in your life is the beauty of your child/partner sleeping, or you're eating the most delicious food, or listening to the most goosebumpy music.

During those moments, your debts don't go away, your mum doesn't stop being poorly, and the roof still has a leak, but you do get a little break. And it's about cultivating that feeling.

I think that accessing mindfulness via raisin is for quite a select section of people

I confess that I gave up yoga and switched to pilates as I got fed up with all the waffle. I find that the exercise is distracting / absorbing enough; without all the mindfulness.

I refuse to even attempt to engage with it any more

But it will happen to you sometimes anyway. It's not a magical, far away land that you personally can't get to. You probably do it several times a day and like it.

It's not for me either... the fact that you have to be "taught" is my first hurdle.
Then the group sessions and the fact that you have to pay for it....

I believe we all have the ability to focus on the here and now... read a book, do arts & crafts, exercise, enjoying the arts (theatre, galleries,...) these activities will give you the desired effect. It's what children do naturally, so we all have learned to be mindful/ looking after ourselves and mental health.

Granted some people need to be reminded how to do it, but it's there within us!

so we all have learned to be mindful/ looking after ourselves and mental health.

well no, some of us never learned this.

I really thought it was a pile of bollocks, but got talked into going along with a friend. We did a 6 week course and I definitely had felt a change. I see it like running; the more I do it, the better I am at it, and if I give up for month, then it's difficult again.

I think there is a load of bollocks around mindfulness, but essentially what it does for me is gives me the tools to stop all the thoughts spinning around in my head just for a little while. It allows me to try to plan my reaction to events/other people rather than continue to react in panic/fear/anger and ending up in the same cycle of behaviour I hated. It's sort of like stepping outside of a situation for just a few seconds to take all the drama out and being able to think about my own response.

It doesn't work for me but I think this kind of focus is something I am able to do anyway- e.g. Childbirth without pain relief.

What really bothers me about it is that it has been marketised as a cure for any discontent. This lets companies, governments and systems off the hook on sorting out the problems making people unhappy or angry. Sometimes we should be unhappy or angry to motivate change.

I sometimes feel I let things go and put up with crap situations too easily, because of the "ability" to ignore them and live in the present. My best friend on the other hand, hovers on the edge of depression a lot if the time but is far more likely to act to improve things.

the fact that you have to be "taught" is my first hurdle

You don't. Money grabbers want you to believe you do though.

You can listen to The Power of Now on YouTube for free, though. Eckhart Tolle audio book. Very accessible, and without raisins. Poses a lot of the challenges people have to mindfulness, and gives clear answers.

I realised that it was making me angry
I can u derstand struggling with the concept and the need to let go and relinquish self control, but I don't get the angry, unless doing the above is what leads to anger?

the fact that you have to be "taught" is my first hurdle
Life is about constant learning. Learning new skills, new behaviours, evolving as we are. Its not taught, it's directed. It's not a classroom lesson!

I believe we all have the ability to focus on the here and now... read a book, do arts & crafts, exercise, enjoying the arts (theatre, galleries,...) these activities will give you the desired effect
Sadly not, not everyone is capable. Reading a book us the closest I got to it, but for most activities, my instinct is to focus on the outcome and indeed, rarely enjoyed the actual doing. Running is all about bearing my record, doing arts is about how perfect the finish product will look, visiting gallery is wondering what the next room will present and in the middle being distracted with the thought that I forgot to call my mum and will need to do so as soon as we get out.

I was able to cope with it until the menopause hit. The lack of quality sleep that came with it and it's left me feeling constant stimulated and unable to switch off, and therefore stuck in a vicious circle.

I fi de mindfulness hard, like sticking to a diet, but I 100% value what it is trying to achieve and the way to go about it.

It’s not supposed to be relaxing. The idea is to concentrate on something else completely so that you stop thinking about any other worries during that time.

I think most people do this naturally e.g when they’re watching a film, cooking, running etc. But a lot of people with anxiety can’t. My DH said he never stopped overthinking, no matter whatever else he was trying to do.

So the course will be trying to teach you how to focus on other things, so that your brain gets a break from worrying.

That’s it really. It’s not anything too complicated.

When, for 30 seconds or so, all there is in your life is the beauty of your child/partner sleeping, or you're eating the most delicious food, or listening to the most goosebumpy music.

I think most people understand this, that having things that fully absorb you in the moment is a good thing. Those tend to happen organically though, you’re with someone or doing something a realise time has passed and you’ve not thought about X or worried about Y.

It’s the trying to force that process or train people into that I don’t buy. I can, fit exsmple lose myself in live music, paying attention to the wrinkles in a raisin isn’t going to recreate that feeling for me, nor is paying attention to my breathing, eating a chocolate or any other artificial activity. The point is it’s the activity that’s absorbing, if you don’t find it absorbing it’ll always just feel forced.

So is the idea behind Mindfulness that we're all running around the rest of the time full of angst & worry about maybe futures & the past? Oh....

Is there a point to mindfulness if you aren't worried about anything?

Those tend to happen organically though
For most, but not for all.

I had no idea that it wasn't the norm to have the brain thinking non stopped until my late 4Os. I just assumed everyone did.

Mindfulness is for people who finds it hard to let the mind go.

For instance, take two people walking by the sea. One will naturally take in the colour of the sea, listen to the wave crashing, Snell the salt in the air etc...

The other person will do the same walk but will take none of it because the entire time, they thought about that conversation they had with their boss and whether something he said meant he wasnt happy, then think about what they'll need to buy in the supermarket when they go shopping afterwards, and finally, will go over and over the conversation they need to have with their child's teacher. They'll finish the walk and will have taken nothing of it.

It's these people who benefit from mindfulness.

It's these people who benefit from mindfulness

Not always though and I think that’s the point the OP is trying to make. It might help some people with racing thoughts and overthinking - and clearly it does for some - but for others it just becomes another stick to beat themselves with because they can’t even get mindfulness right.

I know the usefulness of mindful practice for some people but it’s not a cure all. That person picking through the conversation with their boss might benefit from mindfulness, they might benefit from therapeutic work to understand why they get caught up in their thoughts, might just need a good friend to talk to or take their mind off things,or a change of job. And for some people overthinking the conversant may be a natural reaction to the situation they’re in at the moment. There’s also the reality that for some people mindfulness meditation can be quite harmful - there’s no one size fits all which, for some reason some advocates of mindfulness seem really defensive about.

but for others it just becomes another stick to beat themselves with because they can’t even get mindfulness right
Except I don't think anyone can conclude it doesn't work after just one session.

I don't know anyone who's come out of the first session and found that they were cured of overthinking. If only it was that easy!

A big part of mindfulness is that it states over and over that you shouldn't beat yourself up if you are not mastering it, that it's ok, that learning to accept that it can be a long process and even then everyone has bad days is part of the learning, but again, l
Most probably not on the first lesson.