To think formula is an amazing invention?

[IsoBordem]

As I was sitting and feeding my beautiful healthy, happy, and thriving baby I was suddenly so thankful for the existence of baby formula. It gets such a bad rap by some people but I would hate to think where she would be now if formula did not exist.

Seeing her in the hospital because she lost too much weight in her first week was heartbreaking. I will always be grateful that we live in an age where baby formula is available!

Without formula there wouldn’t be millions of babies dying. That’s a hysterical and unfounded statement. Without formula there would be millions of babies surviving, but formula companies would be millions of pounds down.

In a healthy population where formula feeding isn’t the norm or formula companies haven’t been able to infiltrate, babies do not die of starvation. An absolutely tiny percentage of women are truly unable to breastfeed and where that is the case human societies tend to adapt by other relatives feeding the baby.

Many many women say their milk never came in, they never produced enough, the baby wouldn’t latch, it was excruciatingly painful etc. These are all genuine experiences and women shouldn’t suffer through these at the expense of her mental health BUT they’re things that we’ve caused by the drugs we use in labour, the lack of generational knowledge and peer support of breastfeeding, the lack of understanding about supply and demand, the undermining marketing of formula companies and so on. It doesn’t mean your baby would have died.

I know this isn’t the debate the OP was aiming for, but I find these threads so desperately sad. That women go through life blaming their bodies rather than laying the blame where it truly belongs. I have a friend who followed Gina Ford and stuck to 3 hourly breastfeeds. By 3 months her baby was on the 3rd centile and failing to thrive. She switches to formula and the baby starts piling on weight. What does my friend say ‘I’ll definitely formula feed next time. My breasts just never made enough milk. I feel so bad that I starved her those first few months just because I thought I should breastfeed’. Can people seriously not see how messed up the logic is?

If you cannot breastfeed then formula is lifesaving, donation and/or wet nurses are not feasible for most people. This doesn't mean breastmilk isn't better, but for various reasons it's not possible.

This isn’t a breast feeding thread - it’s about formula.

@SistineScreamer😂 Oh lord, are you ....cracking up because I said the word dick? Who’s being the ‘thread police’ now? Are you going to call out anyone that curses? 😐

On that note.....The thread police? Oh please, get over yourself. I didn’t say they couldn’t post.

I didn’t say you couldn’t swear. Telling people what they can and can’t do or write is the preserve of you On this thread.

I asked why you felt the need to

@Sandcastles55

Without formula there wouldn’t be millions of babies dying. That’s a hysterical and unfounded statement. Without formula there would be millions of babies surviving, but formula companies would be millions of pounds down.

In a healthy population where formula feeding isn’t the norm or formula companies haven’t been able to infiltrate, babies do not die of starvation. An absolutely tiny percentage of women are truly unable to breastfeed and where that is the case human societies tend to adapt by other relatives feeding the baby.

Many many women say their milk never came in, they never produced enough, the baby wouldn’t latch, it was excruciatingly painful etc. These are all genuine experiences and women shouldn’t suffer through these at the expense of her mental health BUT they’re things that we’ve caused by the drugs we use in labour, the lack of generational knowledge and peer support of breastfeeding, the lack of understanding about supply and demand, the undermining marketing of formula companies and so on. It doesn’t mean your baby would have died.

I know this isn’t the debate the OP was aiming for, but I find these threads so desperately sad. That women go through life blaming their bodies rather than laying the blame where it truly belongs. I have a friend who followed Gina Ford and stuck to 3 hourly breastfeeds. By 3 months her baby was on the 3rd centile and failing to thrive. She switches to formula and the baby starts piling on weight. What does my friend say ‘I’ll definitely formula feed next time. My breasts just never made enough milk. I feel so bad that I starved her those first few months just because I thought I should breastfeed’. Can people seriously not see how messed up the logic is?

I completely agree

Why should anyone blame themselves for their choices or their reasons for using formula or thinking bf isn’t for them? They don’t need a reason.

That women go through life blaming their bodies rather than laying the blame where it truly belongs. I have a friend who followed Gina Ford and stuck to 3 hourly breastfeeds. By 3 months her baby was on the 3rd centile and failing to thrive. She switches to formula and the baby starts piling on weight. What does my friend say ‘I’ll definitely formula feed next time. My breasts just never made enough milk. I feel so bad that I starved her those first few months just because I thought I should breastfeed’.

This is so true. I know people who have said the same. Even NCT said babies feed every 3 hours, never mentioned cluster feeding. I remember DH and I calling up the maternity unit asking what is wrong with our baby! Madness. I never thought I had enough milk! I hate that I topped up with formula and didn’t trust my body or understand my baby’s needs.

Luckily Mumsnet, milk meg on Facebook and a few breastfeeding friends ensured me it was normal for babies to feed so regularly!

@shesgonebatshitagain I agree about all the breastfeeding groups (including some of the more out there breastfeeding older toddlers etc) I belong to, I’ve never seen anyone say a negative word about FF.

I didn’t use any formula with my dc’s but I appreciate it’s fantastic for others.

@Camomila

I don't know how far back you are going with babies being fed cows milk and goats milk but I was born in the fifties

My eldest uncle was born in the 50s and fed cows milk, my next uncle in 1960 and was fed formula but my grandad used to drive to Switzerland to get it (lived in Northern Italy), my dad was born mid 60s and they could get formula in the local chemist.

I think from Call the Midwife you could get in the 50s in the UK, but it was still a 'new' thing.

I have a baby book from 1951 and it has a recipe for baby milk if not breastfeeding. It's 50/50 boiled cows milk and boiled water with 10(!) teaspoons of Demerara sugar!

It mentions formal milk but that it is expensive.

YANBU. It’s problematic in the developing world where it’s promoted above BF and made with dirty water, but it kept my DS fed and gaining weight when our mixed feeding journey ended at 9 weeks because of nursing strike.

Breastfeeding can be great, and is obviously better for babies bodies to consume, but it’s just not possible for us all- and can bring it’s own problems.

Perhaps the question should be if we could wipe the slate clean and start a new system for making, distributing and teaching people how to use formula from scratch what would it look like?

[quote shesgonebatshitagain]@SistineScreamer😂 Oh lord, are you ....cracking up because I said the word dick? Who’s being the ‘thread police’ now? Are you going to call out anyone that curses? 😐

On that note.....The thread police? Oh please, get over yourself. I didn’t say they couldn’t post.

I didn’t say you couldn’t swear. Telling people what they can and can’t do or write is the preserve of you On this thread.

I asked why you felt the need to[/quote]
Considering you've ignored the rest of what I’ve said tells me everything. 🙄

So I'll say again: Show me where I've said someone can't post? Explicitly said, "You can't post here." I've questioned the motives of those breastfeeding/advocates coming on to post saying how amazing breastfeeding is, how long they’ve fed for and how inferior formula is on a thread about formula feeding and formula itself. It’s not advice or chiming in. 🙄 It’s being a twat.

No one is saying you can’t post if you don’t have ‘experience’ with formula. Are you always this presumptuous? OP posted about how happy she was that formula existed as she was feeding her baby it. It’s about formula feeding and how grateful she is for it.

Which leads me to my next point: I know I can post on a breastfeeding thread saying how great formula is but I also know I shouldn’t because why would I other than to boast and be smug. There’s no other reason to do such a thing. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. 🙄

@Twizbe wow that must be an interesting book! My grandmother had her first baby early in the fifties and her mum brought cow and gate to the hospital to get her discharged when her (tiny prem) baby wasn't feeding and she'd had preeclampsia. It was at least sanity saving if not lifesaving.

@SistineScreamer

I consider that you have policed the thread by questioning the motives and relevance of two of the other posters who chose to contribute something you feel has no place on the thread. I don’t consider that your prerogative hence I responded. On more than one occasion.

You ironically have shared your own deeply experience of and observations around breastfeeding which in themselves were possibly as irrelevant to the OP’s original question as you had stated these two individuals’ were.

Yet nobody has suggested you shouldn’t have shared them. Rightly so.

@Sandcastles55 you’ve absolutely hit the nail on the head. I also feel that women who chose to FF feel they have to justify why hence the ‘i didn’t produce enough milk’, instead of saying ‘actually I just didn’t want to and it was hard work and I wanted help with the feeding’ which is absolutely fine. Like you say, so so so few women actually cannot physically breastfeed. But you’re right OP, it’s wonderful that we live in a world of choice and as that child’s mother you have the right to chose.

Yanbu at all. I am really happy to have been able to breastfeed. I am even happier to know that if I had not been able to, my babies would not have starved to death. I am really, really at people who are not glad that there is a viable alternative to human milk for babies whose mothers cannot or prefer not to breastfeed!

@BaronessBomburst

Formula in itself is not the problem. It's a very valid alternative to wet nursing, which as another poster pointed out has had moral and ethical problems of its own. The problem with formula is the men behind it; the aggressive marketing machine which makes money at all costs, and those costs being the lives of babies in developing countries. For every baby's life saved by formula, I wonder how many have died?

Once again is that due to the formula or the water used to make it. Developing countries are not known for their clean and safe water

"Once again is that due to the formula or the water used to make it. Developing countries are not known for their clean and safe water"

Formula companies have, in the past, directly targeted communities without access to clean, safe water to promote their products.

An eye-opening, evidence based read for anyone interested in knowing more about the ethics of formula companies is The Politics of Breastfeeding by Gabrielle Palmer.

@SistineScreamer just want to say thank you These points are not raised often so thank you. I couldn’t BF my 12 week old due to medical reasons but even if I didn’t, to put it simply.... I just didn’t want to bf and that’s my choice but the judgement I have had for this ( mostly from bf mums might I add ) I now snap when asked if I FF or BF and I get “ well you know, breast is best “ maybe but I can assure you MY mental health is best for MY baby and as my HV said, a fed baby is a happy baby.

And as for the perfect prep machine, what an invention!! To the pp who said about letting in bacteria, that’s because people were using the cheap knock off filters and not the Tommie Tippee ones and not cleaning it correctly. When used correctly it’s perfectly safe

Surely the awful thing in this is that so much of the developing world is without access to clean water. Sad how this has been mentioned on this thread but not really discussed.

If LMICs all had access to clean water, which obviously affects the health of their entire populations and not only babies under one, then this wouldn't be an issue.

It is great for people who need it but it will never compare to breast milk

@Ilovechinese - the thread is about how brilliant formula is not whether it is or isn’t as good as bf.

[quote shesgonebatshitagain]@SistineScreamer

I consider that you have policed the thread by questioning the motives and relevance of two of the other posters who chose to contribute something you feel has no place on the thread. I don’t consider that your prerogative hence I responded. On more than one occasion.

You ironically have shared your own deeply experience of and observations around breastfeeding which in themselves were possibly as irrelevant to the OP’s original question as you had stated these two individuals’ were.

Yet nobody has suggested you shouldn’t have shared them. Rightly so.[/quote]
By policing I’m assuming you mean questioning? If everyone is allowed to post on these threads why shouldn’t I question posters who deliberately come onto a formula feeding thread and decide to boast/post about breastfeeding?

You’re really nitpicking now. 😂My experiences don’t relate to the OP in anyway, I never claimed they did. But they relate to the posters who come onto this thread and decide to boast about breastfeeding or tell the OP how amazing it is when she hasn’t asked about breastfeeding. No I don’t think that sort of thing should have any place on this particular thread, because quite frankly you’d have to be a right twat to do such a thing in the first place and assume it’s okay.

This is a positive formula feeding thread. There is no need or relevance for posters to come on here and tell the OP (and by default other FF mums on here) how amazing breastfeeding is, how superior it is, how formula companies are the devil and by default so is the product, how many risks formula has and basically imply what a bland, okayish alternative it is. I never said they couldn’t post, but I’ll question their (obvious) motives for sticking those things in a thread where it has absolutely no relevance or need - other than to make FF mums feel shit and themselves superior.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand that? Or perhaps you do and find it acceptable that formula feeding mums are bashed or not allowed to feel happy/grateful of the choice they made without being remind of every negative aspect of said choice?

@Ilovechinese

It is great for people who need it but it will never compare to breast milk

Except that it does because it provides nourishment for babies to stay alive

@Parker231 and your point is? I said it is good for people sho need it but it is a fact that it is not as good as breast milk.