to worry about DS going for a flight in a light plane?

[crackofdoom]

XP has just texted to say that he has a friend who is a pilot flying down to visit in a light plane in a few days' time, and can he take DS1 (10) up for a flight?

I'm torn. DS would love this. I feel terrified. I'm fairly scared of flying anyway, manage to keep it down when necessary, but to be honest the thought of the DC flying scares me more than the thought of me flying myself! DS was due to fly on a school trip this spring - which was cancelled due to COVID - I was a bit scared for him, but the trip was such an opportunity, and I know that commercial flights are really very safe, so I managed to keep it down.

But this one....? Can anybody talk some sense into me about realistically how safe light amateur flights are?

I am a nervous flyer but I think i would still let my DS go on the basis that it would be my irrational fears stopping him. As long as weather ok obviously. But I would feel sick with nerves!

Think about how many accidents there have been, even with high profile celebrities such as Kobe Bryant.

That was a helicopter air taxi operation in poor weather in the States..

..How does that accident (still under investigation) relate/equate in any way to the operation flight in the UK in a fixed wing aircraft hopefully on a good weather day?

What a shame. Flying in light planes is such fun. My dad had a pilot's license throughout my childhood, so many a saturday afternoon was spent down at an airfield, waiting around for him to check the weather, do all of his checks, before going up in a cessna (then throwing up - I was very travel sick as a child) and coming back down again. Damn circuits. Though the days we flew to Le Touquet for a french lunch made all the waiting worthwhile. Over the years I must have clocked up at least 20 hours of flying experience myself too. Also, it certainly ensured I was never afraid of flying as an adult, even in crap weather, an my travel sickness has been almost entirely cured (except on boats - ew).

Understood re not wanting him to take the day off school midweek, but it is such an amazing opportunity, so maybe if it gets offered again at the weekends, ask to speak to the pilot? Any responsible pilot won't mind chatting it through with an anxious mum to reassure nerves, and it's not like he'll be doing barrel rolls across the sky.

"ask to speak to the pilot? Any responsible pilot won't mind chatting it through with an anxious mum to reassure nerves,"

If I was involved in this I'd also make it clear to "the pilot" well beforehand that there as no obligation to do the flight/continue with the flight if they don't feel conditions were suitable....

Ds once took part in filming for a science programme while at primary school. He and another child went off with a teacher to an airfield to meet a (very experienced) pilot, see a light plane etc. There was talk of the possibility of them going up in the plane and I gave permission for this, assuming they would have a nice pootle about in the sky. He did indeed go up in the plane (just him with pilot) but they did a loop the loop, flew straight up and cut engine out (or something like that) and other really terrifying stuff. He absolutely adored it and it was
probably one of the best experiences of his life. I’m not sure I would have given permission for all that if I had known in advance!

I would totally let him go. And encourage him to take the stick for a bit. Let your kids live a bit, we really do cushion them too much.

@notimagain

Think about how many accidents there have been, even with high profile celebrities such as Kobe Bryant.

That was a helicopter air taxi operation in poor weather in the States..

..How does that accident (still under investigation) relate/equate in any way to the operation flight in the UK in a fixed wing aircraft hopefully on a good weather day?

Still a small aircraft. I could give better examples - Emiliano Sala, the Argentine footballer that died a couple of years ago? I’ve got no doubt flying like this must be an incredible and exhilarating experience, but they are far too dangerous. Each person must decide what level of risk they are prepared to take, however.

I could give better examples - Emiliano Sala, the Argentine footballer that died a couple of years ago?
So that's evidence of danger beyond every days' dangers kids face?

There are also cases of professional footballers dying of heart attacks, will that discourage you from allowing your son to play football in case he becomes a potential professional player?

Will you forbid him to go on ski trips because there are students who lost their life in avalanches?

Where does it stop?

I work in aviation (not a pilot) and my brother has been a private pilot (including acrobatics) since he was a teenager. I would let my daughter go in a small plane, I'd be a bit nervous about a helicopter and far far more nervous if one of her friends was driving her in their car.

Ridiculous pearl-clutching in this thread.

My DS did this in Italy. Sooo jealous. So glad that my ds is able to make his own risk assessment and fully engage with life.

@dontdisturbmenow

I could give better examples - Emiliano Sala, the Argentine footballer that died a couple of years ago? So that's evidence of danger beyond every days' dangers kids face?

There are also cases of professional footballers dying of heart attacks, will that discourage you from allowing your son to play football in case he becomes a potential professional player?

Will you forbid him to go on ski trips because there are students who lost their life in avalanches?

Where does it stop?

She, I have a daughter...

It may not suit your narrative, but can you not see how ridiculous it is to compare playing football on solid ground to flying in a small aircraft, where you have no control over maintenance, safety procedures or the credentials of the person flying it?!

I did say that each person needs to decide on the level of risk they are willing to take. For myself or my daughter it’s a big NO to flying in any type of small aircraft, at least until she’s old enough to make her own decisions. However, even as a nervous flyer myself I wouldn’t stop her from going on a trip in a commercial plane in the future (as indeed I haven’t on several holidays we have had already as a family).

@nicslackey

My DS did this in Italy. Sooo jealous. So glad that my ds is able to make his own risk assessment and fully engage with life.

Laughable - so not wanting to fly in a potentially poorly maintained small aircraft, piloted by someone you know nothing about, means not fully engaging with life? 🤣 There are hundreds of life-enriching experiences you can have without taking what most would consider to be a big risk.

@Crownofthorns

I could give better examples - Emiliano Sala, the Argentine footballer that died a couple of years ago?

Actually it's not a better example, it's was another example of an air taxi operation gone wrong.

This is going off topic but there is a potential issue in the Air Taxi/ VIP charter world with (possibly lowish hours) pilots being put under pressure (or feeling under pressure) to deliver their charge to the planned destination regardless of the weather and time of day and also possibly not having the experience/strength of character/backing from head office to feel able turn around to their client and say "sorry sir/madam, I can't carry on, we need to turn back"....

It's killed VIPs/celebs over the years and a similar mentality has killed some of the high testosterone/high achieving businessmen who flew their own aircraft around...it's not anything like the situation that should be faced by somebody flying around their local airfield or area.

That's why I said upthread that if I was in the situation of the OP describes then in addition to sounding out the pilot I would make it very clear that I expected them to cancel/curtail the flight if conditions weren't suitable, and for them not to worry about disappointing anybody.

There are hundreds of life-enriching experiences you can have without taking what most would consider to be a big risk

Yes, but people are notoriously bad at assessing risk. Just because you consider something a risk, doesn't mean it actually is.

You, as a non-specialist are not qualified to assess the risk of flying. Neither am I. But the pilot who tells me it's safe to take my kids up is.

Basically, do you trust the friend?

However, even as a nervous flyer myself I wouldn’t stop her from going on a trip in a commercial plane in the future
Yet you'll have no more control over the maintenance of the plane, safety procedures and credentials of the pilot.

One of these have failed badly in almost all airplane crashes in history.

loving the armchair aviation experts.

Are you seriously going to ask a pilot their qualifications? Going to pone up ATC and check on the TAF and make a qualified judgement on suitability for VFR?

Most people are hilariously bad at judging risk and even worse at probabilistic determination.

eu.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2014/03/17/why-were-awful-at-assessing-risk/6530753/

I feel that, if I have been the one thrust into the role of being the only parent responsible for their welfare, then this is my call too

Totally agree with this.

I would but then again my dad has flown for years. Still safer than going out in someone's car

I feel that, if I have been the one thrust into the role of being the only parent responsible for their welfare, then this is my call too
A judge would not get involved and rule against father who wants to take his child on a small time in his own time.

Mine did this they really enjoyed it and gave them such a confidence boost.

My stepson went up with one of our friends when he was 13. He was allowed to take the controls for a bit and caught the flying bug. He joined the RAF as a result and got his wings this year. Now he’s going to be flying fast jets.

It’s way safer to be in a light aircraft than a fast car.

@notimagain

"ask to speak to the pilot? Any responsible pilot won't mind chatting it through with an anxious mum to reassure nerves,"

If I was involved in this I'd also make it clear to "the pilot" well beforehand that there as no obligation to do the flight/continue with the flight if they don't feel conditions were suitable....

Well quite. I think that flying (or cancelling the flight) according to the weather conditions would fall under the definition of 'reasonable' pilot.

My (reasonable pilot) dad flew friends of mine and my siblings' occasionally when we went flying. A few mums were a bit nervous, but he always chatted them through it, reassured them about his experience and assured them that he wouldn't fly their precious cargo (& indeed his) in unsafe conditions. If they still weren't entirely comfortable, the kid didn't come, and no slights were taken. Nor were they invited again mind you, which is fair enough. He once took us & about 5 of my brother's classmates up for his 7th birthday party 'in the skies'. An amazing experience for them, and everyone loved it! (apart from me as I was being airsick again).

And heres the thing - like it or not - He has a say - he did the right thing to ask - and deep down you know that the right thing to do here is say yes.

There is also a potential trap- "sorry son you cant come for a quick flight - cos your mum wont let you. she was wibbling about time off school, and not knowing the specific maintenance record of the aircraft and if it was in class G airpsace. Dont blame me, blame her."

And he will blame you. And he will remind your DS - every time he can.

So, smile, deep breath and say yes. Your DS will win and no one will lose. say no and everyone will lose