to worry about DS going for a flight in a light plane?

[crackofdoom]

XP has just texted to say that he has a friend who is a pilot flying down to visit in a light plane in a few days' time, and can he take DS1 (10) up for a flight?

I'm torn. DS would love this. I feel terrified. I'm fairly scared of flying anyway, manage to keep it down when necessary, but to be honest the thought of the DC flying scares me more than the thought of me flying myself! DS was due to fly on a school trip this spring - which was cancelled due to COVID - I was a bit scared for him, but the trip was such an opportunity, and I know that commercial flights are really very safe, so I managed to keep it down.

But this one....? Can anybody talk some sense into me about realistically how safe light amateur flights are?

But most light aircraft are fitted with transponders now so they do appear on radar and pilots communicate with each other and/or ATC when entering air space!

Light aircraft don’t hurtle through the sky at 200mph, they operate at comparatively slow speeds and it’s very easy to see and avoid other aircraft even if you missed the radio call (which also would never happen). Pilots know before flying which air space they will enter into and won’t risk the fine that comes with the criminal offences for flying wherever they want without telling anyone.

Even 15 year old has been trained successfully to deal with engine failures and can glide back to the air strip.

You have to pass a series of exams before being allowed to fly solo and even more before taking passengers. To operate commercially you need even more training on top of that.

Before flying I check every part of my plane, as every pilot should (and does). You don’t do that before driving your car.

And flights will only take place in appropriate weather conditions so you can see everything around you.

I do see the anxiety around it and two of my friends have had engine failures up in the air. Both arrived safely back with no damage to the aircraft or injury to themselves.

There are a few Mavericks out there but the pilots and instructors I know are all brilliant.

Thanks for all your replies. I'm amused to see that this thread has gone the way of most AIBUs, and started arguing with itself!

I think I'm going to refuse XP, for the following reasons.

If this flight was something that DS was going to be doing with a trustworthy organisation, such as school, navy (we're v. close to a naval airbase) or air cadets I might think differently, but the fact that I don't know this pilot from Adam, and can't trust XP to risk assess in the same way that I would has a massive bearing on this.

XP has constantly done things with DS that I feel are a bit reckless. As one example, DS is a massively sporty, outdoors, daredevil kind of boy, and I love to encourage his interests in this in a safe way- after school dinghy sailing club, etc. He also likes surfing, so I enrolled him in the local surf lifesaving club, which is excellent (sadly he hasn't been able to do summer sessions on the beach yet, due to COVID). XP- not an experienced surfer- takes him surfing with a random friend of his- not usually a problem, but I learnt in retrospect that one terrible weekend this summer which combined sunshine with very strong winds and a massive tourist influx down here, and which resulted in innumerable coastguard shouts and at least one local drowning, they went to the beach and DS got into difficulties and had to be pulled out of the sea by an adult.

In other words, XP has got no fucking common sense. (and I'll just touch on the fact that he still assumed that he was picking the kids up from school and having them for the weekend whilst isolating with COVID symptoms and awaiting a test a couple of weeks ago. Just because I want to vent, really .)

Also, probably the only reason I know about this is that it would involve pulling DS out of school on Wednesday. Whilst his school does allow this, it is the kind of privilege I invoke very, very rarely- and especially not right now, when they're only just starting to get back into some kind of routine.

Replying to a PP: I guess if I was to pick 3 no nos for DS, it would be potholing (luckily we're a long way away from pothole country, and the saga of the Thai boys may have put a generation of kids off potholing anyway!), light aircraft and motorbikes. Diving- well, we have a very good, trustworthy dive centre down here, so if he wanted to get into that (and fund it himself!) I'd be fine with that.

The risk is very tiny, although not lower than driving.

If you like statistics, this is an interesting read that compares fatalities in commercial air travel, light aircraft travel and road travel mile on mile.

I’ll try and post a pic of its conclusion. My guess is that the larger numbers of take offs and landings/100m miles is responsible for the higher figures (take off and landing being the parts of the flights where accidents are most likely to happen).

The risk will still be far lower than many other activities that we routinely let our children do. Horse riding and trampolining being the first two that spring to mind!

My DS loves flying and wants to get his PPL, so it’s something I’ve thought quite a bit about.

Pic of report conclusion

It would be a no from me too! I don’t even think those light aircraft’s should be allowed to fly over built up areas!! Certainly not fit pleasure. If something goes wrong that’s it.

Thank you thesockmonster, I imagined the whole truth about comparative safety was something like that.

I have been up in a friend's light aircraft and it was great fun. Even doing bumps and rounds( something like that. This was thirty plus years ago so memory hazy. To renew her pilots license every year she had to practice take off and landings. They had to go round for half an hour or more, again hazy.) So in conclusion I would let my child do this. Life should be an adventure and fun, not iPads and tv.

Shame but I given the background I can perhaps understand your POV.

It's a pity light aircraft have been given such a kicking here - there are a lot of misconceptions..we are a long way on from Lord Flasheart's 20 minuters ....

Nowdays even when things go wrong on light aircraft one look at the UK Incident reports ( available on-line via the CAA) will show the result of many system failures (such as engine failures) ends up being quite benign .....Of course the Press generally only cover the fatal accidents..

I wouldn't recommend aviation as a career ATM but it's perhaps worth bearing in mind any pilot, and that includes those who post here, all the one's who flew you off on holiday in pre-Covid days, started their career by flying "light aircraft"for a considerable period and by definition they lived to tell the tale...

It would be a shame if parents become so risk averse that they start denying their offspring the chance to glimpse a path into interesting and challenging lines of work.

I'd be petrified.

My DS [now 28] went to US with a mate when he was in early 20's. Idiot sent me a live photo of them both in a helicopter over the Grand Canyon... I was a wreck until I heard from him after he had landed.

Really surprised by these 'Nos'on several fronts.
Firstly if your ex is equal parent their risk assessment is equal to yours . Secondly it isn't a dangerous pursuit particularly and thirdly it would be depriving your child of an amazing and possibly one off experience.

At age 17, I used to go up
With my 18 year old friend who had a license. Went a few times, just had to cover the fuel between us. Simply amazing. Never thought about it worrying my parents, but at that age you don't! My mate them took my mum up for her birthday present. I would let my kids go 100,% no worse than going in a friend's car

I used to fly in light planes loads as a teenager, I was an air cadet. It was such a good experience, taking control myself. I even ended up going solo in a powered glider after I got a scholarship to do an intensive training course one summer.

Always felt safer in those planes than I do on commercial ones tbh.

Hmm - he asked out of courtesy.

Lets swap this around - will you ask him if you want to take your kids somewhere? How about on holiday? How will you react when he says "no"? Will you ignore it?

The best answer really is - Its your time, you decide, thank you for asking but it isnt really anything to do with me.

Light plane flights are perfectly safe, certainly compared to bicycling or commercial flights.

ummnamechange

It's not his time. It's actually DS' school time. He probably wouldn't have asked if it didn't involve taking DS out of school. He used to have the kids midweek, but hasn't for a year, because he wasn't into the boring, onerous shit of school pickup/ uniforms/ drop off etc. Which has crippled my ability to work.

He is in no way an equal parent. He doesn't take responsibilty for ANY of the boring grunt work, or anything to do with their welfare. We're talking sheer Disney dad EOW here- he won't even comb their hair for nits, or make sure they shower while they're at his.

I feel that, if I have been the one thrust into the role of being the only parent responsible for their welfare, then this is my call too.

contrmary If you'll look at the stats thesockmonster has posted above, they clearly say that "general aviation" is many multiples more dangerous than commercial flights.

I think it was nice of your ex to ask your permission and though, like you, I would be petrified I think it would be quite mean to deny the child this experience based on your own fears. Let him go.

Thank you for clarifying - it didnt come out in the post that this was during a school day. That is a separate question (which wasnt what was being asked)

GA - from an airfield really isn't that dangerous - air cadets end up going solo at like 15. The rules for maintenance and flying are so strict that the CAA is called the campaign against aviation. Before every single flight there are exhaustive checks to ensure safety.

What it feels like to be blunt is that you are peeved with xp (your comments about Disney dad etc kinda give it away) and you know that DS will be gutted not to go and it will be on his watch.

From your childs perspective - they see through it- they see you punishing them to get to their Dad. which is lets face what you kind of want to do. The whole safety thing is a very transparent smoke screen.

Say yes - sure -enjoy, safe in knowledge that the vile weather means it wont happen. (Light aircraft stay in their nice warm hangers pretty much from October to May)

I see your point, but if a plane crashes, that's it. Toast.

Nonsense.

Thats about as valid as saying if a car crashes "that's it"....

For starters see comment upthread by "backinthebox" ( nice user name BTW) about the 777 crash at Heathrow..also look at Hudson river ditching which I'm pretty sure was regarded a crash by the investigators..

Then go beyond the MSM reports and look a the CAA monthly reports of general aviation incidents and accidents...plenty live to tell the tale, very often un-injured..

Be mindful that even our beloved Nigel Farage survived a light aircraft crash.

I don't think you RTFT, unnamechange. I gave a massive update.

@IamMaz

I'd be petrified.

My DS [now 28] went to US with a mate when he was in early 20's. Idiot sent me a live photo of them both in a helicopter over the Grand Canyon... I was a wreck until I heard from him after he had landed.

That's not him being an idiot, he was excited to share a fantastic experience with you. I took my DCs up in a light aircraft a few years ago, we loved it - especially as the fog came down on the way back and we had to fly 600 feet above the sea between islands

@IamMaz

I'd be petrified.

My DS [now 28] went to US with a mate when he was in early 20's. Idiot sent me a live photo of them both in a helicopter over the Grand Canyon... I was a wreck until I heard from him after he had landed.

Just as well I didn’t send a photo to my mother of me flying the plane over the Grand Canyon then. Was great fun, if a little disconcerting when you hit thermals.

I think you'll be depriving him of a really exciting experience if you don't let him go, OP.

I flew in a light aircraft with a friend of my father's when I was 9, and it was fantastic. I went up in a microlight when I was 15 and have been on a few light aircraft since, including one in a plane that had been built by its owner!

The risks of an accident are incredibly low, compared to the risks in the home and the risk of an RTA, and the benefits to your DS are enormous. I'm also uncomfortable with parents projecting their fears onto their children. It can be quite damaging imo.

Please let him go. It's a fantastic opportunity for him.

For those of you interested - the AAIB air accident investigation bureau record, investigate and publish every single incident that happens in the UK. Incident includes, a hard landing, landing perfectly safely but in a field. Taking off a little late along the runway. Everything.

The level of detail and expertise into these as well as the no nonsense reporting makes flying so safe. No pilot is ever punished for reporting - and everyone tries to learn from errors. An approach that medical professionals have tried for years to bring into areas like surgery. (apparently surgeons have fought for years against using a pre-surgery checklist - who knew!?) Aircraft have them to stop people forgetting key steps.

Under no circumstances would this ever happen with DD. Think about how many accidents there have been, even with high profile celebrities such as Kobe Bryant. I feel sick just thinking about it.