To be really cross and a bit upset my husband won’t go to counselling?

[whatkatydid2013]

Husband has previously suffered from depression but he’d been doing loads better over recent years following some sessions with a counsellor and getting out on his bike frequently, which he finds a big help. Over past year a combination, a hernia that has been increasingly uncomfortable/sometimes painful(he’s recently had surgery on it but isn’t recovered yet, stress at work and lockdown have all probably contributed to him reaching a point where he’s feeling very low and like life is all a bit pointless. I’ve never suffered from depression but I don’t think I’m unsympathetic and I try and fit in with what he asks that he feels would help. This has included taking on all planning of the household tasks, childcare, homeschool over lockdown etc (I’d stress he’s done and continues to do lots of the jobs but just can’t deal with organising what we are doing), changing what we eat, giving up alcohol and trying really hard not to ask how he’s doing since it really irritates him. He eventually acknowledged almost 3 weeks back after losing his temper and shouting at the kids and then later at me over nothing that he’s struggling with mood/temper and needs to get some help (the kids giggling while eating dinner and then me saying that he was being utterly unreasonable to shout at them for that). He spoke to the GP, got contact details for a local charity giving counselling and agreed to call them. He still hasn’t called them. I’ve asked him 3 times so far if he’s done it yet. Today when I asked he got really cross and snapped that he didn’t want to and didn’t need any help then stomped out and slammed the door. I know it’s horrible feeling depressed. I don’t want to make him feel worse but I also don’t want him to keep being an arse to me, or worse the children, because he doesn’t want to talk to someone and get some help. Am I being unreasonable and a bit unkind to be really cross with him? Is there a different approach that might help persuade him to call the charity? Sometimes I think I’m being unsympathetic but I just feel like if you know there is a problem and you refuse to even try and fix it then at what point does it become your fault there is a problem.

Honestly?

It sounds a bit as if he's reluctant to get help because he's rather enjoying being revolved and tiptoed around, and having (what he thinks is) an excuse to let out bad moods on you and the children, and knows that will stop if he has to engage with a counsellor and get some coping strategies in place.

What he's been dealing with is pretty much normal life for a hell of a lot of people atm. Most of whom don't expect the household to revolve around them and a free pass to let out their 'temper' on the people they live with.

I have no doubt he’s genuinely feeling depressed. I suspect that it’s the circumstances of the past year (particularly the hernia that’s messed with him being able to employ his usual coping strategy of cycling) that’s triggered that depression. I struggle to believe he’s enjoying it but I agree it’s no excuse to take his mood out on the rest of us. I worry a bit sometimes that he’s doing worse than I realise as he occasionally will say things like what’s the point of doing anything when the whole world is so shit and you can’t fix it. I’m hoping someone who has suffered from depression can help me help him. I fear if I can’t & he can’t help himself it’s going to cause us to irreparably fall out.

Counselling is often really painful, it’s not a quick fix, it takes a lot of courage, effort and buy in to be worthwhile, it’s probably even worse for your DH as he’s had it before and knows what’s coming. Unless he’s in a place to go and engage it’s pointless in all honesty. He might be psyching himself up for it, it really shouldn’t be underestimated how much courage it takes. If he’s a bit of a thinker I would advise stepping back and not mentioning it he will only get defensive.

You could try and sit him down, explain you will leave him to seek help when he feels ready but he really needs to behave better to you and the kids. But like any illness the patient does need looking after which is difficult

Depression isn’t easy. I have been on medication for it for 20 years. He needs to want to get better/manage his depression. It doesn’t sound like he has the inclination. I would ask him why he is happy wasting his life and negatively impacting his family. Because that is what he is doing. His life isn’t a test run. This is it. You are also making it easy for him to get out of life admin (I know you are trying to help him) but it’s time for him to step up, get a medication review, probably up his dose of antidepressants and get into counselling. If he’s not on medication then he needs to be. He will also need to take this consistently for at least 2 years even if he feels better. This greatly minimises a chance of relapse. He also may need to be on this medication for life which of course is absolutely fine.

It’s ok to have bad mental health, happens to lots of people, but it’s it ok to not seek help. It’s doesn’t absolve you from being a parent, a husband, a partner and contributor to the household.

Don’t give him a false idea of what life is eg living like a child with no responsibilities as it’ll make him more depressed in the long run when real life hits. In fact, by being responsible and achieving small things that can really help and give focus.

It’s sad that he has depression but you don’t have to put up with it. You have choices.

Going to counselling is a choice he has to make and you repeatedly asking him will likely be making him catastophise going. I'd stop asking him about it. It took me 10 years to go for CBT first time and its taken me a further 4 years to gear up to refer myself again, which I've put off repeatedly.

You have choices - put up with it for however long you can bear, talk to him and readjust your responsibilities to put more back on him and get him more involved in normality, or leave him. The choice you don't have is over his treatment needs.

Going councelling when you have depression is SO hard, you have to physically force yourself to call, then speak, then even once you've got an appointment you've got to fight to force yourself to go. It requires so much energy. And the problem with depression is- you dont have any energy.
Could you ring and book him in and just take him?

I think what I'd do though is let him manage it himself but remind him that you understand he's struggling, and you really do care, but he cant take it out on you and the kids, all he'll do is bring your mental health down to his level and you know he doesn't want that for or the kids. If he needs your support he can ask and you're there for him.

YABU. You can’t insist that he has counselling.

It's okay for you to have boundaries. Start giving him back some of the house work, it's really not fair that you should do it, and it might give him a good sense of achievement.

You can't insist that he goes to counselling but you can explain clearly how much his moods are impacting you and that you expect him to take action in some way for the good of your relationship.

Ps You can leave a relationship whenever you want. You don't have to stay if it gets too much.

If he were single and living alone, he'd be allowed to carry on as he is, but his illness and associated behaviour are having a negative effect on his family as well, so it's time for him to act. You need to spell this out to him - being mentally ill doesn't mean he gets to be shitty to his family. Yes, depression is hard to live with and hard to overcome, but there is no excuse for not even trying.

Thanks all for your advice and insight. It’s really hard for me to understand why he doesn’t want to go when he’s clearly so low and it’s hard to accept I can’t do something to fix it. I don’t want to leave at all and I’m still very much hoping to get back to our life a year ago when we were all basically happy.

We spoke briefly tonight when the kids finally went to bed and I’ve just stressed that I want him to be happier than he is now because I love him and I want us all to get the most we can out of the current rubbish situation in the world and enjoy having more time together and a few less commitments.

I’m going to try and find a time next week when we can sit down over lunch and have a longer talk while the children are at school. I need to try and get across how this is making me and them feel and that while I accept he can’t help being irritated he can help how he reacts to that. I’ve offered already to book, take him to or go with him to sessions or to talk to the GP with him but he doesn’t want to so you are likely right that the best thing I can do is to leave it alone. It’s clearly not helping to ask him about it and I don’t want to make things worse. Objectively our life is lovely and I’m just really sad and finding it so frustrating he’s currently utterly miserable inspite of that.

He doesn’t want to fix it as at the moment there are no consequences

My DH has suffered with depression now for 8 long years. He categorically refuses to seek any sort of help for it and it’s destroyed our marriage. I can’t help but wonder if he enjoys wallowing in self pity somehow.

I’m past the point of sympathy now because I’m so angry that he’s sucked all the joy out of our lives (mine and DC) but refuses to try and resolve it. It’s incredibly frustrating and selfish. I think you need to be quite firm with him, that the situation is intolerable and needs resolving, it’s not just about him, it’s impacting the whole family.

Depression is a massive twat and for years I went through cycles of it and then long recovery and then when it came back it often took me much longer to accept it was back. And I was very angry about it. And took it out on those around me. It was hard to explain to people that when I felt well I secretly thought I was cured and then it almost felt worse each time it returned if that makes sense? Now I have a useful 'first aid kit' which is a list of all the things I've tried in the past to help myself (and to remind me how resilient and tenacious I've been at trying to get better) and those things which worked to refer to and also a comprehensive list of my signs of getting ill again. It's really helped and you can find some of these resources online. Your DH may be experiencing this kind of denial as sometimes it's just too shit to think you've got to get up the energy to go through all the recovering again. For what it's worth though the thought that I was hurting others does give me a kickstart into handling my illness so definitely worth you stating how upset it's making you. for you though, it's the worst.

Fabulous40 what a horribly ignorant comment.

The consequence of not fixing depression is that you are feeling a combination of desperate pain, shame and self-loathing all day everyday and losing all sense of hope for the future. Yeah - I'm sure he's having a fine time of it - why would anyone not want to be feeling that?

op it is ludicrously difficult to pick up the phone and start a new relationship (which is what successful counselling will be) when you are feeling hopeless and riddled with self doubt and loathing.

Ask him if it would help if you organised the first session - so all he has to do is turn up at the time you tell him. I wouldn't have made it to my first session if my husband hadn't done all the logistics for me - and I was a successful scientist organising a team to do research without breaking a sweat before depression knocked me on my ass.

OP, the only person who can make that call is your DH. Asking him repeatedly is not helping and likely to be counterproductive.

I dont see how nagging will make him do it, i would not tolerate being nagged at, but not an excuse to behave bad towards someone though

Depression is a PITA for the loved ones on the sidelines.

DM once gave me a brilliant analogy that I still use to this day - except I ended up expanding what she said and giving what I think is a better perspective.

DM was depressed and shouting at me every day, calling me names, telling me that she hated me, etc. I asked her why she was being so mean and she said 'If somebody is drowning and they're kicking and screaming in a panic, it's not fair to tell them to stop kicking you when it's hurting you and telling them you'll leave them to drown.

It seemed profound d until I realised... if they're kicking and thrashing so much that they hit you in the head and you go under in the water, you won't be there to help them any more anyway.

Basically, what im saying is that people can't just blanket justify everything they're doing to the people because they're in danger. Some common sense has to be there, or they'll suffer because they've killed off their one lifeline.

So don't forget that it's equally important that they don't destroy you in the process of processing their depression. If you end up becoming depressed too because you feel that he's being too harsh to you and DC, then you won't be good for anything. And DD need at least one committed parent to thrive.

Counselling is just one treatment option. It doesn't help everyone and I think people know if they're not in the right place mentally to get any benefit from it.

When you keep talking about it you give the impression that you expect counselling will 'fix' him, especially if you mostly bring it up when he's getting on your nerves.

I would leave it, and concentrate on setting and protecting your boundaries around how you wish to be treated. How, and whether he gets there is on him.

Hi OP have you read or watched any Depression Fallout or Living with the Black Dog? It might help you to learn more about why he might not be able to pick up the phone just yet. It doesn't mean that he won't next week or the one after though.

@Justpassingthroughagain not ignorant at all - my DH has depression, anxiety, ptsd and bipolar so I find myself quite well versed in dealing with mental health.
Yes the hardest thing is taking the first step, and often I find you have to do it for them. But if they live in a consequenceless environment they sink further.
OP is allowed to put some consequences out there for the sake of her own mental health and the health of her children. She can have minimum standard and expectations. It can’t all be on his terms, his MH cannot dictate the whole fate of this family.

@Justpassingthroughagain

Fabulous40 what a horribly ignorant comment.

The consequence of not fixing depression is that you are feeling a combination of desperate pain, shame and self-loathing all day everyday and losing all sense of hope for the future. Yeah - I'm sure he's having a fine time of it - why would anyone not want to be feeling that?

Depression is not a get-out-of-jail-free card to abuse the people in your life.

My ex had supposedly had depression at the end of our relationship, and this was on top of his normal nasty self. I left, with the DC. His actions then and after we left prove he knew he was hurting us, and he didn't stop.

He did nothing to help himself before we left, just tried to use his depression as a was of justifying all the crap he put us through, and initially went to the doctor for treament after we left. He stopped going once he realised I wasn't going back, although not before pulling some stunts, like "suicide" threats (where I have evidence in writing that he lied).

He'd had depression a few years before, and at least once before that, too. I was endlessly supportive, and didn't realise at the time how he was using it all as a way of keeping me down. How I wish I'd had MN years ago.

I've had to support our DC through depression and anxiety brought on as a result of living with him, and in the case of DS, real suicidal thoughts at one stage. We've had CAHMS involvement, and the DC are well on the way to good mental health now. I won't be able to get rid of the GAD entirely, though, I'll always suffer some anxiety.

Supporting someone through something like depression should not come at the cost of your own MH. This is what happened in my case. I left, and am so much happier, as are the DC. We don't have any contact with ex (late teens, their choice), a direct consequence of his own abusive behaviour, and, more importantly, his own failure to accept any blame for anything ever. I think he's narcissistic, it would explain a lot.

fabulous if any of what you post is true, how could you possible say there are 'no consequences' of suffering depression?

bit I couldn't agree more. Saying there are indeed substantial and even life threatening consequences of depression in no way indicates that anyone should accept abusive behaviour from someone with depression.