To think men need to be more responsible for problems occurring in childbirth

[TheExecutionOfAllThings]

I’ve seen many posts on here saying that a woman has had physical injuries after childbirth and can’t/ doesn’t have the urge for penetrative sex anymore - and therefore the man is unfulfilled and wants to pursue another relationship.

On the one hand, I don’t think anyone should have a sexless marriage/relationship if it doesn’t suit them - but on the other hand, there’s something really unpleasant about a woman going through a horrific birth that means she can no longer have penetrative sex either physically or mentally and the man being free to just leave if it no longer suits.

It feels cruel and inhumane that a woman can end up with significant injuries when the man agreed (possibly indirectly) to the risk beforehand, but he can just walk away.

Childbirth, despite being as old as humankind, is only ever one parties responsibility - during birth and after (CMS a poor account for responsibility).

I’m not necessarily suggesting that men should stay in a relationship than leaves then unfulfilled if they can’t have sex - but there’s something really inhumane and unfair that the woman is equally as unfulfilled but can’t fix it and there’s no means for her to move on - when the decision that broke her was mutual. The man on the other hand can enjoy the spoils of childbirth if he wishes, but can rid his hands of the mother.

I don’t know what the answer is at all - do we make it compulsory that men always have 50/50 care when doing an act that could result in children (and possibly at that detriment to said children)? Do we cause equal harm to the man who has fathered a child with a woman who has suffered injury (very inhumane). Do we force compulsory relationships once a child is born or pregnant (absolutely horrific for all parties).

All terrible choices - but I do think there needs to be more accountability towards the man if a woman suffers injuries in a joint decision to have sex that may result in a child being born - especially in situations where the man has already committed through marriage ‘in sickness and health’ and all that.

probably largely due to women being older when they have their first baby and also there are more obese women

What would being obese cause in regards to tears? Genuine question. O thought quite often that surprisingly obese women can often have smaller babies ( but they do then play "catch up " and gain weight quite quickly after birth)

one of the problems is that we give primacy to penetrative sex. There are plenty of other ways of being intimate and sexually fulfilled.

@BubblyBarbara

When Man places his seed in Woman he takes on a tremendous responsibility from that very point and this is why coitus should take place under the institution of marriage under God! Then the couple remains together and committed through thick and thin till death do them part.

However I appreciate that this is not how you say "a la mode" so if you choose to cohabit and conceive not under marriage then you are personally responsible for your own actions. You can leave the man just like the man can leave you. It's a sad state of affairs but that's modern freedom and if you choose to play those rules then you take the rough with the smooth!!

@BubblyBarbara “when Man places his seed in Woman”? Give over 🙄

I'm sure there are plenty of women who walk away from relationships because their partner can't preform sexually for whatever reason, it just so happens thats not because of injuries due to giving birth. It probably is unfair, but like you said, anyone should be free to leave a relationship for whatever reason they like, so really there is no solution.

SnackSize thanks for that. I know in the 70s lots of us didn't want episiotomies but I just wondered if that was a battle we won but ended up causing more stage 4 tears, I would hate to think that.

I was actually more traumatised with the stitching than the actual episiotomy and when my doctor did my six week check up he asked me if the person who stitched me had a personal grudge as it was such a mess. I had my next baby at home and he swore he would do everything to avoid an episiotomy but I needed one, he knew how I felt about the stitches and I swear he gave me so much local I was numb for ages.

The single best thing that we can do as women, is to choose men wisely.

And yes, sometimes they hide their arseholian behaviour very very well.

But other times - they don’t.

If your boyfriend is selfish - how likely is that he’ll be one that loves you and waits whilst you heal, who compromises and finds other ways to be physical intimate - permanently, if necessary?

My husband’s first wife died - cancer. They didn’t have penetrative sex for 4 years during her illness, treatment, recovery, relapse. Actually didn’t have much of any kind of sexual intimacy. I’d say his preference is sex most days. But he loved his wife more than he loved sex.

I’m divorced myself, I made a bad choice. In retrospect, did I know he was selfish? Yes. So I’m posting this from right inside a glass house. But I read so many threads on here from women who are in dreadful relationships.

We many of us need to wait longer, and then to expect the very best from our relationships - and not have children with that person if we’re not getting it.

I think people can be judgemental about this sort of thing. My husband is disabled, I've been a carer for nearly 30 years. Yes I know it is for better or worse but until you've lived it don't judge.

Cocomarine great your husband was able to do that for 4 years, to me 4 years is nothing, how would he have felt if it had been for the rest of his life? For 30 or 40 years?

Not everyone can do it, relationships change for many reasons.

@ancientgran

I think people can be judgemental about this sort of thing. My husband is disabled, I've been a carer for nearly 30 years. Yes I know it is for better or worse but until you've lived it don't judge.

Cocomarine great your husband was able to do that for 4 years, to me 4 years is nothing, how would he have felt if it had been for the rest of his life? For 30 or 40 years?

Not everyone can do it, relationships change for many reasons.

I don’t know, @ancientgran

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make? I didn’t say that he should have had to stay with his wife.

I’m saying, that for 4 years, sex was less important to him than loving his wife.

So, when she chose him - she made a good choice. Maybe it was a shit choice if she’d needed a man to accept 40 years not 4. But it was clearly a better choice than a man who wouldn’t have waited even 4 months.

That’s my point... the single biggest influence we can have on this, is to make the best choices that we can. One day on Mumsnet will tell you that many women don’t. (and I haven’t always, myself)

The woman is equally free to leave the marriage/relationship if she wishes. Why do you think only the man has that option?

Because more often than nit the dad only thinks of himself hes free to go stay at a mates on the sofa and get back to bachelor life

Bit harder to leave when it's your career thats suffered you have no childcare and you are only part time.

And thats befire some dont even get proper jobs so they can avoid paying too much in child support...

Cocomarine, how can you tell though? I'm no saint, I don't know if anyone would have pointed at me and said I was the sort to stick it out for 30 years. I don't think it is reasonable for people to point the finger at a man or woman who feels they need to leave a relationship.

A woman might be suffering from childbirth or any other injury and she might have a great relationship on the other hand she might constantly be blaming her husband. His life might be hell. I can tell you that people who seem to be coping with their illness in public can sometimes by vile in private.

@BubblyBarbara

When Man places his seed in Woman he takes on a tremendous responsibility from that very point and this is why coitus should take place under the institution of marriage under God! Then the couple remains together and committed through thick and thin till death do them part.

However I appreciate that this is not how you say "a la mode" so if you choose to cohabit and conceive not under marriage then you are personally responsible for your own actions. You can leave the man just like the man can leave you. It's a sad state of affairs but that's modern freedom and if you choose to play those rules then you take the rough with the smooth!!

You must be fun at parties.