Absolute NHS Illogical Arseholes!!

[RufusInTheLibrary]

DH is an anaesthetist, he works like an absolute dog! I wouldn’t do it for a gold pig...but it’s been his dream.

Finished his training and went through hell to pass FRCA exam. Hundreds of hours and A LOT of money out of our pockets. But it would be worth it because you have to pass this exam to gain a registrar position. Right?

Queue Covid!

Rejected for the job in August because they didn’t hold the interviews. We know he would have gotten this otherwise.

Yesterday he was rejected again (despite having a higher score than any previous year acceptance score) because they decided nobody needed to pass that super hard and expensive exam anymore so literally everyone who otherwise wouldn’t have been eligible applied.

Not only that but they aren’t even willing to offer points for having passed the exam... so DH has spent the last 18 months of his life and over £1000 of our money for absolutely F* A**!!!

That exam was really hard to pass, a lot of trainees fell at that hurdle and DH spent his whole career gearing up to it. Now he’s losing out to people technically less qualified than him because they have random undergraduate degrees in different subjects.

We have a small DC it’s a nightmare and I feel so sorry for him.

I'd stay out of it OP. 1k is peanuts really. You sound a little bit too involved. Back off a bit and let him at it.

@RufusInTheLibrary what you don’t seem to get is that in any other year you wouldn’t get an ST3 number without having the exam! This year is exceptional because of covid and because some trainees couldn’t do the exam because it was cancelled! They didn’t choose not to do it to do another audit! They actually didn’t have an exam to sit!!! They were cancelled.

OUCH

'When most of the roles given were awarded to overseas doctors and taken at their word on all the qualifications they claimed to have'

Come on @RufusInTheLibrary - seriously! Racism. Umm hopefully he doesn't share your views.

They're putting people's lives at risk. I'm sure that exam cuts the wheat from the chaff, all exams do.

[quote RufusInTheLibrary]@TableFlowerss

Not actually having completed audits, research, teaching...etc doesn’t make you a dangerous Dr or less qualified. It’s like lying about running the school news paper when you apply for uni!

It’s not fair as you get points you might not have earnt but it’s not going to insight mass panic [/quote]
That’s not at all what you insinuated in your original post. You suggested that their qualifications were questionable.

It’s all very well correcting yourself now- but yes, without correcting yourself, people could have been led to believe no one checks their qualifications!

This kind of thing happens everywhere. Have we so quickly forgotten Labour's home buyers packs where huge numbers of people paid for courses/qualifications to become home inspectors only for the Govt to cancel the scheme before it even started? It's not unique to the NHS.

@Tangfastica no they aren’t, these are all highly skilled individuals and they will all have to pass the exam to progress. Passing the FRCA (the anaesthetic post graduate exams) is something we have to do but does not make you a better anaesthetist. Some of the best anaesthetists I know have struggled to pass yet are incredibly safe, competent and I would trust them to anaesthetise a member of my own family. The OP has sadly gone way overboard here and is being unnecessarily dramatic.

Agree with user1497...this happens in many walks of life and careers. £1k is peanuts in grand scheme of things...this happens a lot people get shafted in their career ....wrong yep but true ...

Company I worked for (in Scotland) dragged a whole bunch of graduates to London, at their own expense, for a job in my office that they later decided didn’t exist.

Things change, you just have to get on with it.

@RufusInTheLibrary you are clearly very upset but this has been a completely out of the ordinary year.
I take it that your husband is applying for ST3 having completed core training? It is not clear if he has passed the primary FRCA or the final. Usually the full primary is required to apply for ST3 the rule has been amended this year to accept only written part of the primary as some sittings were cancelled because of COVID.
Nobody will have checked your husbands teaching experience really happened either! Evidence in the portfolio is examined usually at interview. But did you really think they could ring up St Elsewheres and ask if people remembered Simons great talk on sodium transport?
There are always far fewer posts starting in Feb than August so competition is always tougher. Any folk appointed will still have to complete the exam to allow for progression anyway.
He really needs to have a calm discussion with the college tutor about ways to further strengthen his CV/portfolio. If he has a trust post and doesn’t have to rotate to different hospitals then he has time to work on a project. Sounds like the department value him so I’m sure they will be happy to help.

Ah, you are allowed to be upset OP.

I work in a very different field but still remember when my research council abruptly pulled funding opportunities halfway through doctoral study. It was shit. The year I graduated there were 8 jobs in my field in the UK.

Hang in there. Your DH will get there.

Your DH would have no idea whether his competition had sat the exam or not. So I have no idea how you both have decided that was the case. Sounds like you both have heard the exam isnt a requirement for the role applied for (which would be on the job description) and he isnt happy that someone may have got the job who hasnt sat it.

Sitting an exam doesnt equate to a good doctor. I am intrigued that your DH is a staff grade as the only people I know who are or were a staff grade are those trying to become a SpR in hospital settings who failed the OSces first time round or are happy not moving any further forward. He didnt get a job based on one interview, he needs to take it on the chin and get feedback and move on to the next one

It’s not racist, it’s fact, that a lot of medical jobs are given to overseas doctors. Not sure how that can be racist?

This is MN - people are sitting poised to scream "racist" at any little thing. It seems to make them feel superior.

@Browneyesbigbum

It’s not racist to think that, given the year we’ve just had, the NHS should have given priority to Dr’s who already worked for them, rather than recruiting from overseas! Its about the NHS looking after their own, regardless of ethnicity, gender, age or disability.

The doctors at our local hospital are a total mix of ethnicities (most non white) and each and every one of them (in my opinion) should have been prioritised over non NHS doctors coming from overseas!! I think they deserve that for rallying during the pandemic and going above and beyond.

‘Thanks for risking your lives for us during this pandemic but if you’ll just step to the side whilst we fill these jobs with candidates from overseas that would be fab- thanks’

Oh come on @RufusInTheLibrary - there are very few doctors coming in ST3 training posts from overseas. A tiny proportion. Step back and look at yourself because now you just are spouting xenophobic nonsense

* It’s not racist to think that, given the year we’ve just had, the NHS should have given priority to Dr’s who already worked for them, rather than recruiting from overseas! Its about the NHS looking after their own, regardless of ethnicity, gender, age or disability. *

Disagree
I want the NHS to choose the best candidate

Not simply to prioritise (gulp) “looking after their own”

The simple facts are your husband didn’t get an ST3 job in August or for the Feb intake. He may be a slight victim of circumstance yes but he obviously didn’t score highly enough and that isn’t the fault of other candidates who did score highly enough whether or not they have passed the exam which they will have to pass to progress no matter what. I get that you are upset but man alive your posts are getting worse!!

Also stop with thinking of this as the NHS. It is a national recruitment run by Health Education England with the Royal College of Anaesthetists. Based on transparent job specifications and scoring. There is no hidden agenda here.

@RufusInTheLibrary did the interview panel offer feedback to your husband? They should offer to provide that at the very least. If not, your husband has the right and should get in touch with the panel to see exactly what went well and what went less well. It will equip him for subsequent attempts. And mostly it will reassure him that the process hasn’t had inherent biases towards him and his achievements.

I am muddled by this post. What I glean is that he didn't get a registrar number because the royal college changed their criteria for getting one. The exams no longer earning a candidate points. It is what it is to be honest. There are several competitive specialties and the colleges have the right to decide what their inclusion criteria is. He shd be able to brush up his application to try again next time unless he decides to change specialties.

There were obviously better people for the position.

The scoring for ST3 interviews is posted on the JRCPTB website, and has been up there for at least the last five years. I have just pointed my F2s in that direction, so they know what they are working towards over the next two years. Any decent educational supervisor will have done the same. The exam is usually one of several essential requirements, but as the exam sitting was cancelled this year (most of us were a bit busy with Covid), obviously it would have been unfair to keep that requirement for this round. It will be back as an essential requirement next year.

The exam alone is not and never has been enough to get you an ST3 post, and if your DH doesn't have enough teaching/audit/research on his CV, he won't be competitive next year either. He needs to look at the scoring system, look at his CV, and work out what he can do to gain additional points over the next 6-12 months.

Woman’s hubs didn’t get job after an interview.
Woman mad on his behalf and acting like a know it all about an industry she’s not part of.
Woman spouts daily mail quality headlines about foreign doctors.
Woman gets angry at posters who work in the industry and correct her misunderstandings.

Lord you need to chill out a bit and understand that your precious husband, like the rest of us with careers, may at some point face rejection. It may not feel fair. But as I tell my toddler, who I think understands the concept better than you, you don’t always get want you want.

Good lord I hope your husband is a little more resilient after one bloody knock back. Get a hobby op.

Hi Op, I empathise with you. The anaesthetic recruitment this year have been shambolic but so has the whole world to be honest.
Just to note, it’s not the NHS IT system that you should be angry about, they have almost nothing to do with recruitment. It’s Health Education England (who are responsible for training junior doctors to consultancy).
I can also, however, empathise with them, it’s their fault that there has been a pandemic which has meant that interviews were unable to take place and it’s understandable that they have had to move the goalposts accordingly. IMO just cause you’ve worked many years in the NHS doesn’t mean you should get priority in applications, I’m sure your DH isn’t one but I know plenty of shit NHS doctors who continue to work year on year.
Anaesthetics training in this country is VERY competitive, he’s done exceptionally well to get his primary done. But it’s competitive for a reason, cause anaesthetics generally have very favourable hours and work/life balance.
It’s pretty rubbish but if he really wants to work in a competitive specialty, he needs to keep at it. Or if he can’t do that any more he could change speciality. In anything competitive there are, unfortunately, limited places, so it’s a case of play the game, or pick a different game.
But I see where you are coming from, in fact I think one of the reasons that contributed to them changing the programme this year is because so many others have been held back at this stage without finishing the primary. One of my closest friends is in a similar situation as your DH but he doesn’t have the primary. I don’t believe tick boxes are the right way to assess anyone’s skill in any profession, but equally, I don’t think exams are either. If you don’t perform well in exams doesn’t mean you are a bad doctor. My friend (Though I’ve never had to see him as a professional) I’m sure is a great doctor and has worked in the NHS for the last 10 years but just cause he doesn’t have this piece of paper for one part of an exam, should that mean he shouldn’t get a job either?
I hope things work out for your DH and also for my friend.
I think they hold anaesthetic applications for SpR jobs at least twice a year. Good luck.