Absolute NHS Illogical Arseholes!!

[RufusInTheLibrary]

DH is an anaesthetist, he works like an absolute dog! I wouldn’t do it for a gold pig...but it’s been his dream.

Finished his training and went through hell to pass FRCA exam. Hundreds of hours and A LOT of money out of our pockets. But it would be worth it because you have to pass this exam to gain a registrar position. Right?

Queue Covid!

Rejected for the job in August because they didn’t hold the interviews. We know he would have gotten this otherwise.

Yesterday he was rejected again (despite having a higher score than any previous year acceptance score) because they decided nobody needed to pass that super hard and expensive exam anymore so literally everyone who otherwise wouldn’t have been eligible applied.

Not only that but they aren’t even willing to offer points for having passed the exam... so DH has spent the last 18 months of his life and over £1000 of our money for absolutely F* A**!!!

That exam was really hard to pass, a lot of trainees fell at that hurdle and DH spent his whole career gearing up to it. Now he’s losing out to people technically less qualified than him because they have random undergraduate degrees in different subjects.

We have a small DC it’s a nightmare and I feel so sorry for him.

[quote RufusInTheLibrary]@NurseButtercup

I assume you’re not actually a nurse as then you’d know that ‘networking’ plays absolutely no part in securing a registrar position. Being good at your job barely plays a part. It’s all numbers and tick boxes on a faceless NHS IT system.

The fact that DH is well liked and good at his job is the only reason he got a trust grade role at his hospital In Feb! (When most of the roles given were awarded to overseas doctors and taken at their word on all the qualifications they claimed to have)[/quote]
So networking plays no role in a registrar position
But one of the main Reasons your DH got current role was because he was well liked?

[quote countbackfromten]@GreyishDays I’m an anaesthetic registrar and amuses me greatly when I tell people what I do on a daily basis. Sadly it is a speciality most people know little about but we are the largest speciality in hospital and the estimates are that almost 1/3 of inpatients will have some input from us in some capacity. It is a brilliant job.[/quote]
@countbackfromten
That must be annoying! At least a few people have a better idea of what you do, from this thread.

@PeonyRose80 oh bless you!!! It is an amazing job and I count myself very lucky, I always remember what an amazing thing it is that patients put their trust in me. Sorry we couldn’t get you out of the audit though....

@GreyishDays most of the time it makes me laugh. I once was asked on a date what NVQs I had done to become an anaesthetist, he definitely didn’t think I was a doctor!

Last week I did everything from epidurals on labour ward, nerve block injections for patients having surgery for fractures, sedation in the emergency department for someone with a nasty injury and was part of the team looking after a critically ill patient in our resus area. It is amazingly varied and interesting and I get to meet an incredible wide range of patients. It is brilliant and despite the challenges I absolutely love it.

Similar with GP exams this year. Our daughter was dragged up to London to sit very expensive exams with 200 others from across the country. The day afterwards they cancelled and just went on portfolios for others

Not quite correct- the remaining GP trainees who had not been able to sit the usual exit exam due it being cancelled, had to wait quite a few months until the royal college came up with a viable alternative, and which was approved by all the various bodies including the GMC.

They were examined in July and had to wait a few weeks to find out whether they passed- not all of them did. Instead of spending the last couple of months of GP training getting into the job, trainees spent that time preparing for a completely new exam rather than applying for jobs etc.

This was all reported to me by my GP cousin who works in a training practice!

* Yesterday he was rejected again (despite having a higher score than any previous year acceptance score) because they decided nobody needed to pass that super hard and expensive exam anymore so literally everyone who otherwise wouldn’t have been eligible applied. *

Wait.
He applied for a job. He didn’t get it. He was up against people who was In same boat as him and people who hadn’t taken the exam.
And yet he was rejected.

Sounds totally fair and square to me

Oh and the trainees got a slight discount on the exam, but it still cost over 1 grand to enter & sit the exam!

@Afibtomyboy networking plays no role in getting registrar training posts (a "number") - these are allocated by a standardised national application and interview framework and there is no advantage to "who you know."

What the OP is talking about is a non-training trust grade job in a hospital where her DH had already worked - in those cases knowing people in the right place can be helpful. But he can't progress through training to become a consultant without getting (and completing - it's 5 years with continuous assessment and some more very expensive and difficult exams) a registrar training post.

Be grateful he's not in EM as his speciality. At least you get shift patterns a few weeks in advance :-)

What other qualifications does he have? PHEM? Intercalated degree?

It will all work out in the end.

[quote RufusInTheLibrary]@NurseButtercup

I assume you’re not actually a nurse as then you’d know that ‘networking’ plays absolutely no part in securing a registrar position. Being good at your job barely plays a part. It’s all numbers and tick boxes on a faceless NHS IT system.

The fact that DH is well liked and good at his job is the only reason he got a trust grade role at his hospital In Feb! (When most of the roles given were awarded to overseas doctors and taken at their word on all the qualifications they claimed to have)[/quote]
I don’t think you should be saying things like that on a public forum tbh. I also had sympathy for you and DH until I read that.

That could put the fear of god up some people if they read that!

The bit where you question the validity of qualifications

Wait.
He applied for a job. He didn’t get it. He was up against people who was In same boat as him and people who hadn’t taken the exam.
And yet he was rejected.
Sounds totally fair and square to me

NHS - we will be advertising a job next year that requires you to complete X time consuming and expensive exam. You will not be considered without it.

Candidate A: takes and passes exam
Candidate B: doesn’t, uses free time to do some audits.

NHS- Appications are open btw, we don’t need that exam anymore and aren’t giving any points for it. We will give points for audits though!

Right... I’m sure If you were candidate A you would consider that fair!

Hello OP

I just wanted to send you my sympathies as a fellow medical spouse. You're at a tricky bit of the career, I remember all the uncertainty and stress and costly exams really well. And all the rage at the faceless bureaucracy!

Best of luck, I hope things work out soon. xx

I found being married to a junior doctor extremely stressful so you had my sympathy, until you went into your rant about foreign doctors.

Is it because they feel they have to pay him more? Some places , at least where I live” are scared to hire an “overqualified” person because of this.

@RufusInTheLibrary it isn’t the NHS, it is the RCoA and HEE (who decide on training numbers) with the GMC having to be consulted on this and how people were appointed because they couldn’t have a panel.

Other trainees couldn’t sit the exam at all through no fault of their own, because of covid. This was the fairest way to do it and they will have some additional time but will still have to pass the exam, just like your husband will have to pass the final FRCA to progress!

@TableFlowerss

Not actually having completed audits, research, teaching...etc doesn’t make you a dangerous Dr or less qualified. It’s like lying about running the school news paper when you apply for uni!

It’s not fair as you get points you might not have earnt but it’s not going to insight mass panic

They will still have to pass the Primary at some point. Your DH will have to do some (too many) audits at some point. He hasn't wasted his time.

As someone who used to interview and appoint anaesthetists at consultant and trust/staff grade/clinical fellow roles I can tell you they aren't appointed because they've claimed to have done x and y research. Yes there's a point scoring system (as there is in every job application and interview) but uk docs aren't disadvantaged to over seas docs. Often the other way round because the interviewing docs already in the uk are known and absolutely networked. I've been in trusts where we've put out an advert for a job specifically timed for when a certain doc will become available as the consultant body want x back as they were a great trainee etc. So as @NurseButtercup it is a lot of networking.

Good luck to your husband though

Candidate C
Did Exam And Audits

Applying for registrar rotations and then consultant jobs is absolutely shitty! So many end up in staff grade posts. The whole process is designed to break people-I'm sure of it!

My husband is a consultant now, but both processes are awful in their own way. For the consultant post they have to accept whichever job is offered first, no matter where!

Doctors who have passed the specialist exams will always have more respect than those who don't among people who know the difference.

I certainly wouldn't go for an operation done by a surgeon and anaesthetist who didn't pass their exams-and I checked qualifications for both surgeries I've had.

It might not seem it now, but when you are on the other side it absolutely is worth it.

* Not actually having completed audits, research, teaching...etc doesn’t make you a dangerous Dr or less qualified. It’s like lying about running the school news paper when you apply for uni! *

I get you’re upset
But now you’re being daft

Wow they've lowered the bar when recruiting many companies do this so wouldn't start kicking the NHS for it.
Would you be shouting as loud if he hadn't done the exam but was able to apply.
comes across as bitter

In fact the audits, publications, presentations and any other kind of quality improvement projects will be scrutinised even more at the consultant interviews. All applicants to a consultant post would have done the exams. The quality of their extra-curricular work may well provide the discriminatory factor at a competitive interview.

Registrar years rely heavily on tickboxing these activities as part of annual appraisal - trainees can and will be held back if they do not meet the minimum criteria on these.

The point allocation would have been weighted to recognise various extra-curricular components including the outcome of exams. So the exam alone would not guarantee a training number. Neither would an audit alone. There are applicants for numbers who have everything possible ticked off but stumble at the interview itself. It’s always a terrifying and bewildering process. I’d put it down to bad luck and take away the useful bits for future interviews.