To think the government should not have let universities go back

[strawberrysandpecans]

If it knew already from modelling what would happen with Unis it should have made teaching online the first term and saved students the accommodation fees. Government should have subsidised Unis for these for a term and then see where we are after that.

I feel so sorry for students, especially the first years they really have had a terrible year!! I was watching the news a I thought why don’t they just let them all get COVID in the first few weeks, then after a few weeks they will all be over it, most people under 25 really don’t get bad symptoms. then all be able to go to live classes. As they will have heard immunity.

And yes I know there will be some students that have other underline conditions, but still most people under 25 don’t get ill.

Also if they have had it in Autumn, they will be able to go home at Christmas.

Anyway just a thought!!

Do you know how hard it is to adapt teaching into online delivery? Who does that, do you think, beyond academics and support staff working their butts off over summer to make it happen? It costs MORE to develop good online learning. The rest of the previous overheads - buildings etc. - still need to be paid for. Plus is studying online a good experience for anyone, is it good value for money? You’d be calling it a cop out wouldn’t you? Universities and the people who work in them need money, unless you want the government to bail them out to the tune of billions.
The virus will still be around in term 2, the best compromise IS to bring students back in a limited capacity because universities can’t run on fresh air and most won’t have the kind of cash reserves to go without fees indefinitely and continue to miraculously exist when this all blows over.
I have all the sympathy in the world for this year’s students but it’s two weeks out of three years. This is how things are now.

Don’t worry though, I’m sure the govt will seize on the chance to blame universities for this. There’s not an institution left in the country they won’t have decimated by the time someone grasps power from their claws. How they have the cheek to still call themselves Conservatives I’ll never know, they haven’t conserved a damn thing.

@Weirdwonders...but bringing those students who can study remotely back on campus was not a good compromise. it's not safe. I get why they are doing it because of the lack of bailout. but if they got it, no one in their right mind would think that's a good idea. it's a huge public health issue which yes universities are engaged in because of finances but let's not pretend that this is a good thing.

campuses should be prioritised for those students who have to go in for their studies but the rest are basically only there so that unis get their money.

Actually most students are likely to get it at some point, as are most of us (some of us already have), maybe it's best to have them all together, they're the age group whose numbers were increasing anyway due in part to less concern around social distancing etc, almost all will have mild symptoms and they are much less likely to give it to granny and grandpa in halls than at home

DD has all her lectures online this term. She is paying rent she can't afford and can't get a job anywhere. This is added stress on top of studying for her MSc.

If the students didn't go, there would be many private landlords with no income. They aren't all rich. My sister is a student landlord and that is her income.

[quote newsheadlines]@Weirdwonders...but bringing those students who can study remotely back on campus was not a good compromise. it's not safe. I get why they are doing it because of the lack of bailout. but if they got it, no one in their right mind would think that's a good idea. it's a huge public health issue which yes universities are engaged in because of finances but let's not pretend that this is a good thing.

campuses should be prioritised for those students who have to go in for their studies but the rest are basically only there so that unis get their money.[/quote]
It was only a couple of months ago that mn was full
of threads saying how ridiculous it was that universities were even considering moving online. We were all lazy, incompetent and it wouldn't be worth paying for.

We can't win. We move online we're lazy and poor quality. We teach f2f and we're irresponsible and money grabbing.

Students want f2f
Many academics want f2f
University campuses are Covid secure and isn't where the issue lies - it's in halls and students socialising.

If the students didn't go, there would be many private landlords with no income. They aren't all rich. My sister is a student landlord and that is her income.
Don't think that is a relevant factor

@MereDintofPandiculation

I wonder how many students would have deferred their places for a year if it had been spelt out: "we'll put you into a shared flat with 5 strangers, and even if you don't get on with them, or they form a clique with you excluded, you will be able to socialise with no-one else, and you will have to sleep there every night for the next year without even coming home for Christmas".

Alternative view if universities HAD gone online:

I wonder how many students would have rather have seen uni go online at home, if it had been spelt out: "You can study in the same bedroom you've been stuck in for the last six months, with your mum nagging you about how you going to the pub puts the whole family at risk. You can stay in your same area and see the same people who you grew to hate at school (only at a 2m distance, mind!). We'll do it online til Xmas but more than likely we'll get to January and the situation will be worse not better, so then we'll cancel you going for the second semester as well and bingo, you can spend your whole first year at home and miss out forever on the experience of living in halls. Then, next year, you can do a pot luck on the house you rent (because the halls will be full of first years) and the random strangers you find online to move in with you.
Yes, you can wait a year to start if you like, but you can't work because there are no jobs and you can't travel because of Covid. And with those dodgy A-levels results which weren't quite what you were expecting, you'll have to reapply and take your chances with an even bigger cohort next year"

Given all this, my DC chose to go in person to Uni this year and is happy to take the chance of getting sick and being locked in for a while if need be, given the alternative of a long lonely winter at home.

I am always struck on Mumsnet at how posters seem to have a very middle aged and practical view of what's best for their teens - some teens will agree, but I suspect a majority would make a different decision to their parents' suggestion that they'd be better off online at home. At 18 it's about independence and fun, rather than getting value for money and enjoying home comforts.

Whilst I fully agree that teachers have a d are going over board to make things happen, teaching online is VERY different from f2f. If the university/tutors have never done it, there will be many mistakes along the way, mistakes that wouldn’t have happened in a f2f situation. You just have to read what uni teachers who have taught online courses say about it.

The in-person teaching that universities offering “f2f” are providing is also very different to what most people understand by f2f. Arguably more so. Sitting two metres apart with masks on means that discussion is not possible. Try running a humanities seminar without discussion! There are limitations to online teaching, but at least you can maintain live discussion. In my f2f sessions, I will be having students in the room doing various things on their laptops, and we will really struggle to meet our learning objectives because of the lack of discussion. There is also no research at all on teaching this way (obviously), so we’re feeling our way in the dark, whereas there is a decent literature on online pedagogy.

"My 18yr old worked it out and deferred. Immediately. Because she didn't want to be paying to learn on line in a room that she had to pay £120 a week for."

Your daughter was lucky - many universities did not let students differ. They would need to reapply and compete with next year's students.

I'm teaching about 20% f2f - I wanted more but wasn't given it, mostly because of contraints on rooms. To ensure social distancing you have to use rooms with much bigger capacities than the actual number of students. Some departments in our university are doing no F2F - it was very much left up to them to decide, which I think is unfair as students were promised "blended learning" - not online.

Spot on @CamelotSweetheart, think most posters see the situation from their own pov rather than the students.

wonkhe.com/blogs/what-is-happening-at-universities-right-now-and-why/?

I am always struck on Mumsnet at how posters seem to have a very middle aged and practical view of what's best for their teens - some teens will agree, but I suspect a majority would make a different decision to their parents' suggestion that they'd be better off online at home. At 18 it's about independence and fun, rather than getting value for money and enjoying home comforts.

The point is that there's no fun on being on an enforced lockdown, not being allowed out even to the shops, having to learn online in a small student room, which is what is happening to some students now.

But lots are still having a good time,ok maybe not quite what it would have been ,but still getting their independence,exploring new cities and getting to know people.

Of all the students I know who have gone away ,only one has come back.
Lovely girl,but a bit of a princess.

Even in normal years there are always some who just can't hack it

The WONKHE blog is an excellent summary which addresses many of the issues raised on this thread ....

@strawberrysandpecans

I am always struck on Mumsnet at how posters seem to have a very middle aged and practical view of what's best for their teens - some teens will agree, but I suspect a majority would make a different decision to their parents' suggestion that they'd be better off online at home. At 18 it's about independence and fun, rather than getting value for money and enjoying home comforts.

The point is that there's no fun on being on an enforced lockdown, not being allowed out even to the shops, having to learn online in a small student room, which is what is happening to some students now.

Yes but it's only going to be a couple of weeks that they're locked down in their flats. Then they're free to have fun with housemates, explore a new city, sit in the kitchen drinking vodka until 3am, learn how to shop and cook for themselves and all the other things that are good about being a student.

My neice only got told the day after paying for accomodation in Edinburugh that all her lessons are now online, they knew the situation before the demanded money, the problem is that Uni has become a cash flow process.

This was like my son (1st year science degree). He was originally told that he would be put in halls with people on his course, so they could be a 'bubble'. Then he was sent a timetable that was mostly online lessons, but with 1 'in person' thing every day - be that a 'meet your fellow students' event, or a lecture, or a small group semiar, or a lab.

When he arrived, he found he was in halls with random people from other courses, all the 'in person' lessons had been cancelled, and all his lessons would be via Teams in his room. His room which he says smells, and as he is on the 3rd floor, his window won't open so he can't get any fresh air in. His uni wouldn't allow anyone to defer without losing their place.

Yes but it's only going to be a couple of weeks that they're locked down in their flats. Then they're free to have fun with housemates, explore a new city, sit in the kitchen drinking vodka until 3am, learn how to shop and cook for themselves and all the other things that are good about being a student.

I haven't seen any proof of this. It doesn't equate with them being told they won't be allowed home at Christmas potentially, which would suggest long term restrictions

@strawberrysandpecans

Yes but it's only going to be a couple of weeks that they're locked down in their flats. Then they're free to have fun with housemates, explore a new city, sit in the kitchen drinking vodka until 3am, learn how to shop and cook for themselves and all the other things that are good about being a student.

I haven't seen any proof of this. It doesn't equate with them being told they won't be allowed home at Christmas potentially, which would suggest long term restrictions

What "proof" do you require? Isn't it obvious that some teenagers would prefer to be living with their peers rather than with parents? It's very difficult for freshers at the moment, particularly those in lockdown but plenty of people are in lockdown of the moment and it isn't nice for anybody. Regarding them not going home at Christmas, I see that as bullshit stirring from the media. They can't treat them differently from the rest of the population so unless everybody is not allowed to go anywhere that's not going to happen. I bet cases will have dropped dramatically in the student population by Christmas anyway.

I haven't seen any proof of this. It doesn't equate with them being told they won't be allowed home at Christmas potentially, which would suggest long term restrictions

But this isn't government policy - it's something the media have jumped on and run with. It's not government policy and hasn't been recommended by any the health bodies or experts.
SAGE have raised the issue of students dispersing at Christmas as a risk and universities are working with the government to minimise this risk but there is currently no suggestion or policy stating that students will be prevented from going home.

This is the official line from my university and an email stating this has been sent to concerned students and parents.

Ds1 is just starting uni. 90% of his lectures are online. He’s still moved into his dorm, and formed a “bubble” with his roommates. It’s not normal by a long shot, but if he’d decided to stay at home and commute in he’d a) still have had to pay his accommodation costs, and b) would have had even less chance of any kind of student social life. It would have also increased the risk to me and ds2.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m praying he’ll be able to come home for Christmas, and I definitely think the government / uni should have been more open with them about how this semester would look, but I don’t think cancelling everything would have been the right thing either.

BellaDonna12 I meant proof they'll only be locked down for a couple of weeks and after that will be having fun.

I hope you are right and they will be home by Christmas, but that must be worrying for some students who are newly away from home

Universities are businesses. They have little concern about the welfare of students. It’s the dosh that they care about.

Universities are businesses. They have little concern about the welfare of students. It’s the dosh that they care about.

Really? I must be imagining all the student support that takes place at my university then? A system that is replicated across the sector.
I must tell my colleagues in the well-being department that they're no longer required.......