To think the government should not have let universities go back

[strawberrysandpecans]

If it knew already from modelling what would happen with Unis it should have made teaching online the first term and saved students the accommodation fees. Government should have subsidised Unis for these for a term and then see where we are after that.

It was up to the government to sort this out and they should have worked out how to help universities financially.

I think it must be they're thinking of more than 2 weeks Ehup if they're now threatening to stop students coming home for Christmas.

I reckon it will backfire on the government if they do that because families won't be supportive - Tories may not care about the student vote but parents and grandparents etc wouldnt be impressed imo

It could be difficult for 1st years for a few weeks but there will probably be herd immunity by November at this rate

Will it though? What if there's a vaccine. Students didn't sign up for herd immunity, they were told plans had been put in place to keep them safe

Are students subject to any stricter conditions than the rest of us? They're not at my university.

Incidentally, we also have plenty of f2f teaching. I'm on maternity so haven't followed the arrangements closely, but afaik all teaching happens in person and is also streamed and recorded. Students have a rota whereby numbers are restricted according to the size of the rooms. With this arrangement I believe students will attend at least half of their classes in person.

The covid risk is in their behaviour outside the classroom, where plenty of mixing beyond what's allowed by our local restrictions has happened.

@MindyStClaire

Are students subject to any stricter conditions than the rest of us? They're not at my university.

Incidentally, we also have plenty of f2f teaching. I'm on maternity so haven't followed the arrangements closely, but afaik all teaching happens in person and is also streamed and recorded. Students have a rota whereby numbers are restricted according to the size of the rooms. With this arrangement I believe students will attend at least half of their classes in person.

The covid risk is in their behaviour outside the classroom, where plenty of mixing beyond what's allowed by our local restrictions has happened.

Some universities have put entire halls in isolation and have told students they can't leave - this is due to localised outbreaks. MMU currently has 1700 first year student in lockdown in their accommodation. Quite frankly it's a nightmare.

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@strawberrysandpecans

It could be difficult for 1st years for a few weeks but there will probably be herd immunity by November at this rate

Will it though? What if there's a vaccine. Students didn't sign up for herd immunity, they were told plans had been put in place to keep them safe

The plan to keep them safe with apparently that they shouldn't mix outside their households. If that happened there wouldn't be a huge increase in cases. I expect that many feel this is not worth the isolation given that they are low risk.

@strawberrysandpecans

It could be difficult for 1st years for a few weeks but there will probably be herd immunity by November at this rate

Will it though? What if there's a vaccine. Students didn't sign up for herd immunity, they were told plans had been put in place to keep them safe

Campuses are safe. We can't stop students socialising when they aren't on campus. That's out of our control

Very hard for freshers but my older DC are having a great time and would have been gutted to have to stay home

We discussed this all with DS before he started at uni. He has been working for two years as a chef, and wants to make the shift to a new field, so he's 'happy' to have caught CV in freshers week. He won't miss anything more important later on. Education is the sensible option for young people in an uncertain era. No one can take it away from you, regardless of what happens, and there are not a lot of casual low skill jobs to be walked into at the moment.

Belladonna12. She will continue to work at the same place where she has worked since 15 only for more hours. They shut down for 9 weeks (furloughed) but back up and running and looking for staff . Piicking up more hours as many staff have gone to University..

@XingMing

DS has been at uni a fortnight. He knew it would be mostly online lectures for the first term but, at 21, he was looking forward to getting on with life as an adult. And so, he's introduced himself to everybody, has contracted COVID and is halfway though his isolation. This is the population that has to drive herd immunity for everyone older and vulnerable. A scant few will be seriously ill, but most will be like DS who had a fever for 12 hours, coughed for 48 and is now feeling perky again.

And yes, it's absolutely the rational decision to study and improve your education during a period of (what will be) huge job loss. DS will graduate (we hope) in 2024, by which time the world will be on the way back to normal.

Great. As a member of staff at uni pushing as much f2f as possible, with higher risk personal profile, this does not fill me with joy when I have a class of 28 tomorrow morning.

I recall being supportive of a university that in June said it would be online teaching at least this term. Some others followed suit.

Yes it should have been online only so that students could choose to remain at home.

@Patchworkpatty

Belladonna12. She will continue to work at the same place where she has worked since 15 only for more hours. They shut down for 9 weeks (furloughed) but back up and running and looking for staff . Piicking up more hours as many staff have gone to University..

That's nice for her but there aren't enough jobs for everyone and if everyone deferred what will happen to the current year 13? That wouldn't be fair on them either.

From a teaching perspective this is a good year to study, certainly at my institution we have gone above and beyond with making sure students are getting enough content and attention from academic staff, a lot lot more than usual. Assessments have also been changed so coursework is shorter, exams are open not closed book. I think it will be easier this year to get better marks so anyone who was flunking second year last year will be better off than usual for sure.

I agree the socialising aspect is dire though!

Both DDs are studying science courses at different UK universities. Both institutions have asked for them to be in their cities for labs. Lectures can be streamed but when the DDs were at home from March - September, streaming was a nightmare because we live in a rural hamlet with crap broadband and it just keeled over.

We have all written to our MP to ask for it to be improved. BT were meant to put in fibre to the property at the end of May but we are still waiting. I am a teacher and trying to juggle my work plus my daughters' courses was a nightmare.

DD1 is being tested weekly by her university and the tests evaluated in their labs. She is a 4th year and is living with one person who takes all the same modules as her, so they have offered to be lab partners to maximise the space available. DD2 is living with one person from her course plus 3 friends. The girl on her course and DD have again offered to be lab partners as they share a house. The uni is delighted by this.

DD1's accommodation is university-based. DD2's is private. She signed her contract in February. DD2 had little choice but to return. DD1 has weighed up the risks and decided to return to uni, having received reassurances that they are doing all they can.

Not all courses are the same. Not all courses can be taught entirely remotely. Some students don't have access to stable fast internet connections on which to watch streamed content when they are not at uni. Not all students are irresponsible twats who want to party every night and cross-contaminate one another. As a family we have spent the last 6 months discussing what is best. Although I would rather have the DDs here, I accept that it is not the best thing for them. They understand that, so are taking steps to keep themselves safe.

My neice only got told the day after paying for accomodation in Edinburugh that all her lessons are now online, they knew the situation before the demanded money, the problem is that Uni has become a cash flow process.

There is equal blame to lay on both the governments and Uni's

YABVU

Do you not realise how many Tory MPs are landlords. We can't have them suffering.

They should have been allowed to assess their own risk, defer if chosen, and thereafter left the fuck alone to be young and have fun. What's happening is beyond ridiculous.
Remember the good old days where we were protecting the nhs from overwhelm rather than avoiding the illness forever and ever amen?

Yep, as PP have said.
More remote learning needed (needs) to be in place unless modules require physical presence (labs, placements, etc)
I really don't get why F2F learning was needed for a lot of the courses.

Do you not realise how many Tory MPs are landlords. We can't have them suffering.

This type of Twitter sphere hot take would hold value if it wasn't also happening in Sctoland and other countries not ruled by 'teh ebil tories'

@Justanotherlurker

My neice only got told the day after paying for accomodation in Edinburugh that all her lessons are now online, they knew the situation before the demanded money, the problem is that Uni has become a cash flow process.

There is equal blame to lay on both the governments and Uni's

I'm not going to argue about what Edinburgh University did or didn't do. However most universities made it quite clear months ago that a lot of the courses would be mainly online.

@Aisforharlot

They should have been allowed to assess their own risk, defer if chosen, and thereafter left the fuck alone to be young and have fun. What's happening is beyond ridiculous. Remember the good old days where we were protecting the nhs from overwhelm rather than avoiding the illness forever and ever amen?

And what about the current year 13? If everyone deferred they wouldn't be able to get a university place next year. Plus universities would probably go out of business anyway.

@Bellesavage

From a teaching perspective this is a good year to study, certainly at my institution we have gone above and beyond with making sure students are getting enough content and attention from academic staff, a lot lot more than usual. Assessments have also been changed so coursework is shorter, exams are open not closed book. I think it will be easier this year to get better marks so anyone who was flunking second year last year will be better off than usual for sure.

I agree the socialising aspect is dire though!

I disagree with that.

Whilst I fully agree that teachers have a d are going over board to make things happen, teaching online is VERY different from f2f. If the university/tutors have never done it, there will be many mistakes along the way, mistakes that wouldn’t have happened in a f2f situation.
You just have to read what uni teachers who have taught online courses say about it.

twitter.com/trishgreenhalgh/status/1310234327578562561?s=21

@Bellesavage, doing the course online whilst been able to meet up with fellow students, have access to the library etc... isn’t the same than being locked in your hall though....

I don’t think ANY student was expecting that to happen. And I dare to say, I dint think anyone would have dare using that sort of tactics to older adults either. Imagine elderly been told that they have to stay in their sheltered accommodation by meeting with a guard outside that stops them from going out? And wo warnings they couldn’t do any shopping before hand?

Young people are being badly served by all this.

But it's not for the government to direct every aspect of their lives- the government caused the utter fiasco of the A level results so probably are not that competent to make any decision on education.

And no there should be no taxpayer subsidies- universities themselves should pay any compensation for inviting students to locate in their towns.