Are we being unreasonable to want to force her?

[CutToChase]

My gran is in her late 80s and lives in England.
My parents live in Ireland.

My gran lives in this kind of place, I'm not sure what you call it: lots of self contained flats for elderly people, so it's not really a home, more like a kind of assisted living residence.

She has always been very independent.

She has all her marbles and is sharp as a tack. She was also a war child, so you know the drill: trooping on without complaint.

However her health has been deteriorating rapidly. She has had just about every type of cancer you can imagine. Now her cancer has become skin cancer. Her feet are swollen, some days she cant wear shoes. Last week her consultant told her the cancer had spread to her back. It turns out it was shingles.

We have started a campaign to try and get her to go over to live with my mum in ireland now. She has always said she wanted to do this. She can travel and is so happy when she is over there.

I've been calling her weekly (we all take turns) and yesterday I really said we needed to get her over to live in ireland and she said how much she would love that. My mum is worried now that autumn is coming and there might be more lockdown in the UK and she could deteriorate and be all on her own.

My gran seems to really want this but something is stopping her. She says she feels too tired to make it happen. I also think she is worried about changing consultants etc.

But what should we do? It cant be right that we leave her there in the UK to live alone through this? Especially when she would love to go and live with my mum. At the same time she is digging her heels in - I'm not too sure I fully understand why. But wouldnt it be better for her if we forced her? I know we need to respect the elderly's decisions. But surely this is the right thing for her? If this is the end, surely it is better to spend them in peace, in a family home with the comforting presence of people who love her. Maybe she is just scared and to a certain extent it could be helpful for us to make the decision for her?

YABU = Respect her wishes and drop it
YANBU = Take control and get her to ireland

[vdbfamily]

Your best chance is to persuade her to go a stay with her daughter for a month or so where she can then decide if it feels like the right long term plan. Someone may need to drive her there so that it is manageable for her. Once she had decided you can then work out whether she just stays on or returns home to sort all her stuff. Moving is a huge decision and most elderly people leave it too late to have the energy to do it.

[ScrapThatThen]

She'll deteriorate quickly with a move and she needs her medical team who she knows. Let her know she is loved and leave her be.

[LindaEllen]

My great aunt moved to be nearer her daughter a few years ago, and she was sort of similar in that she liked the idea, but it all just seemed so overwhelming for her.

It was easier for us, as she wasn't moving to another country, but we said to her if it was as easy as us setting up her new room and her just travelling to it and it'd be all ready, would she go .. she said yes.

We dealt with everything, including getting her a new doctor, her newspapers/magazine subscriptions and registered her with a new bingo hall (she was still just about able to go out alone when she moved).

It was a lot of work, but in the end she had a wonderful 5 years near to her daughter and grandchildren before she sadly died from a completely unexpected infection last year.

We wouldn't have changed what we did for the world, it was so beneficial to her. So pose the question of if she didn't have to worry about ANYTHING, would she want to go.

If she still says no, you can't do much. As you say, she has all of her faculties and is coping okay. The only thing is, the longer it's left, the harder it is to make a move. But you need to find a better way of saying it than that!

[CharityDingle]

A big thing to consider that you may not have thought of is that you have been thinking where it might be better for her to live, but she might well be the pragmatic sort and have been thinking along the lines of where she wants to die i.e. where she'd prefer to spend her last years/months, where she wants to be buried/have her ashes scattered, which friends she would want to come to her funeral etc. Elderly people often set a lor of store by these considerations and want to have a good death that they have a big say in. Most of us like to plan our future as best we can and she will realise that this is a very big part of her not-too-distant future. They don't just want to stop living and have their life 'closed off' as somebody else sees fit.

+1.

I'm trying to picture my elderly parents upping sticks to a different country, while quite frail, In ill health, and during a pandemic.
I can't picture it.

[Eckhart]

She has full mental capacity, just like you. What if she decides you need to move, and considers forcing you? How would it make you feel?

You say she is 'sharp as a tack', whilst at the same time, you're considering overriding her decisions. Why? Because you are uncomfortable?

Talk to her, make sure you know the facts, then make sure she knows the facts. Then allow her at least the dignity to make her own decision about where she lives. Don't choose this final stage of her life to be a time to invalidate and disrespect her wishes.

[AnnaMagnani]

So she lives in a place absolutely designed for her needs, and has support of close family and friends. Plus has on-going relationships with healthcare providers for complex medical problems.

She doesn't want to move.

If and when she needs additional help at home, she can have a care package provided either self funded/social services funded or NHS funded depending on the situation. And if necessary move to a residential or nursing home. But she may never need that.

[Deadringer]

i tjink it's very relevant whether your gran is Irish and is hankering for the old country, or she is from the UK and just always really enjoyed visits to her daughter in Ireland. If it's the latter, leave her be.

[Deadringer]

*think not tjink

[Baggiegirl]

Having experienced relatives needing palliative care in both England and Ireland I really would advise against moving her . Community palliative teams here are superb in my opinion. This is no reflection on Irish staff and services but they just don’t have the same systems in place especially in rural areas

[DarklyDreamingDexter]

This is really hard. My mum was similarly adamant that she wanted her independence in her own home. She refused to consider sheltered accommodation which is what we were pushing for. She also refused daily carers or nurses coming in. Her idea of hell was living in a nursing home, but we were afraid that on her own she’d have a fall or a stroke and the choice would be taken away from her. Well that’s exactly what happened and now she is in a nursing home as she needs a higher level of care.

If she hadn’t been so stubborn, maybe it wouldn’t have come to that? I don’t know how you force someone though, if they have the power and mental ability to refuse. You can’t physically drag them out! The only thing to suggest is you put the frighteners on and paint a very bleak picture if she stays alone. It didn’t work with my mum, but good luck!

[giletrouge]

DarklyDreamingDexter Op's gran is in sheltered accom - Op wants gran to leave what sounds like a very well-set up situation and go and live with family in Ireland. Not comparable.

[Eckhart]

I don’t know how you force someone though, if they have the power and mental ability to refuse

You don't, and shouldn't, any more than they should force you to do things you don't want to do.

[CharityDingle]

The only thing to suggest is you put the frighteners on and paint a very bleak picture if she stays alone.

Please don't do this.

[myhobbyisouting]

"Put the frighteners on her?"

Jesus Christ. This thread is probably the most disgusting I've read for a while. It really is true that people have so little respect for the older generation.

This is a human being we're talking about.

[JanMeyer]

The only thing to suggest is you put the frighteners on and paint a very bleak picture if she stays alone.

God some of you are awful. And seemingly unable to read. She's not alone, she has people nearby and lives in sheltered accommodation. But even if they were alone, your suggestion would still be horrible. All this talk of "forcing" elderly people to move is disgusting. Just because you don't like the decision they've made doesn't mean they lack mental capacity or the right to make their own decisions. A few people on here would do well to remember that.

[slashlover]

The only thing to suggest is you put the frighteners on and paint a very bleak picture if she stays alone.

@DarklyDreamingDexter that is disgusting.

She has family and friends nearby, she's in familiar accommodation with helpers who she knows and familiar medical staff who know her conditions well.

If she moved to Ireland she would ONLY have OPs parents. The poor woman would be in a strange country with NO friends, NO medical people she knows and trusts, NO familiar people she sees every day. I would say that was more being alone than if she stays where she is.

[goose1964]

I think people who lived through the war, especially as children, have a do it our selves mentality. I'm in a similar place as you only my DMiL has dementia and DFiL has heart failure. We've offered to send DS1 to make sure they're OK and not overdoing it, but it's always were fine.

[forgetthehousework]

This thread has some really disturbing posts, suggesting the merits of coersive behaviour, lying, threats and kidnap, apparently simply because the victim is elderly, (as there is no suggestion she lacks mental capacity).

If you are so concerned about your GMs health OP I suggest you uproot yourself and move closer to her, then do all the physical caring that you believe no-one else is capable of organising.

[Eckhart]

Yes forgetthehousework I thought that. If she's not able to care for herself, doesn't want to be alone, and doesn't want to move, why is nobody moving to her, given that moving is clearly a light decision, to some.

[DarklyDreamingDexter]

Seriously! Some of the responses here! Disgusting??? Really?

My mother refused everyone’s pleas to go into sheltered accommodation and stubbornly insisted on staying in her own home. A very frail 89 year old. She fell over in her own bedroom and broke her hip. She then had a stroke with the stress. Or maybe she had a stroke and fell over and broke her hip as she went down. We don’t know which way round. All I know is I found her there on the floor as I just so happened to be popping around that day. She had been there hours, totally dehydrated, in pain and near death. I called an ambulance and fortunately they were able to save her.

I appreciate the OP’s situation is some what different, but she doesn’t want her to be away from family who can help her. Especially if we go into another lockdown whatever. Can’t some of you understand that?

Yes, I can fucking read, but unless you have been in a similar situation with an elderly relative who you only want the best for, you can FUCK OFF with your judgement. No, I don’t regret saying “put the frighteners” on her. She has to understand the implications of her actions. If my mother had, maybe she wouldn’t be in the pitiful situation she is now.

[myhobbyisouting]

"She has to understand the implications of her actions. If my mother had, maybe she wouldn’t be in the pitiful situation she is now"

I have been in the situation where an ill, frail and elderly relative chose to continue living independently. She knew the risks and made her choices regardless.

You don't know what situation your mum may have been in. That's the point. She could've had a stroke anywhere, or she mightn't have done. She chose not to go into a home just on the off chance she may need to.

Why do you assume your mother didn't "understand the implications" of her choice to live independently . Could you get any more patronising?

What you suggested is absolutely disgusting

[myhobbyisouting]

"but she doesn’t want her to be away from family who can help her. Especially if we go into another lockdown whatever. Can’t some of you understand that?"

She is near to her family and friends. Just not the specific family member that the OP thinks she should uproot her entire life to be with.

[Carriemac]

Dexter you sound a bit guilty over what happen to your mum, but the OPs Gran is in a different situation

[slashlover]

I appreciate the OP’s situation is some what different, but she doesn’t want her to be away from family who can help her. Especially if we go into another lockdown whatever. Can’t some of you understand that?

She has family who can help her! OP has stated that her other son/daughter and grandchild is there.

In Ireland she has - OPs parents.

Where she is she has OPs aunt, uncle and cousin, her friends, her carers, medical professionals who know her and are known to her.

So care to explain the implications of her actions? Why is OPs parent a better prospect than her other child?

[JanMeyer]

I appreciate the OP’s situation is some what different, but she doesn’t want her to be away from family who can help her. Especially if we go into another lockdown whatever. Can’t some of you understand that?

She's not away from family though, she has people nearby, just not the OP.

No, I don’t regret saying “put the frighteners” on her. She has to understand the implications of her actions. If my mother had, maybe she wouldn’t be in the pitiful situation she is now.

Wow, do you need to be so patronising? What makes you think the person in question doesn't understand the implications? Your mother's situation isn't remotely comparable, not least because the person in question is already in supported accommodation.
And yes, it's disgusting to suggest "putting the frighteners" on an elderly sick person just because they won't do what you want them to. They have capacity, therefore it's their decision to make. And no-one should be bullying them into anything.