To think what's happening to student is discrimination against poorer young people.

[Feelingconfused2020]

Students are young, in many cases just 18 yet many are being asked to isolate in a room for 2 weeks with issues around access to food and no real friends or family around them (because they've just got there and live with strangers) arguably prison is a safer place as at least food supply is guaranteed. In Scotland they've already been told they won't be allowed home at Christmas which is beyond absurd.

So what is going to happen? Inevitably families with enough money will encourage their young people to drop out and take a gap year. Those who can't afford to do so will be stuck at uni. The poorest suffer most, as covid seems to prefer.

It's not ok for Nicola Sturgeon, and other leaders, to stand by and let this happen, there will be suicides, there will be incidents related to mental health issues.

The governments all needed to have predicted this would be an issue, they should have put more strategies in place as they have in schools.

I am so cross for young adults in this country, they have been completely disregarded by all our governments.

I have 2 kids at university and they will NOT be staying for Christmas. One has severe mh issues and her father is her carer anyway, she needs to have her eating monitored (I'm guessing the university won't be offering this service???) the other isn't in halls anyway. They are not prisoners so legally there's nothing that can stop them leaving and the court will take a dim view of universities that penalise young people for doing completely legal things which were not part of any terms and conditions they signed up to

I should qualify my comment by saying I know that Some unis will be doing online and F2F and this is the right thing to do.
Stem subjects for example will have to have Labs so they must be F2F.

This all just seems so wrong. I don't know what the answer is, but what I do know is that keeping 18 year olds, most of whom will have never lived away from home before, locked in a flat with people they don't really know, is not right. It would have been better for universities to try and reduce the numbers of students on campus and encourage them to stay at home and do online learning, with an option for accommodation for those who need it. Some of these kids have no way of getting food or doing their washing if they have to self-isolate for two weeks.

My DS is in his second year and living in a student house, so his situation is ok. We're in an area where cases are low at the moment, and so far his experience has been ok. But there's absolutely no way he won't be coming home for Christmas.

😀 sue Ellen I am not used to talking on line with someone as knackered as I am right now! Yes I can see teachers and lecturers are in the same boat, I should direct my parental frustration to someone else!! So who Is responsible for saying...yes schools teach face to face,
( at £5k per state school child) but no unis shouldn’t (at £9k per student)? ..

Earlier in the summer there were dozens ( of pretty nasty at times) posts criticising universities for considering online learning for this academic year..... apparently it's poor quality and a cop out for lazy academics.

Now people are telling us that's that we should have been doing all along.

We really can't win 🤷🏼‍♀️

All. I can say is that if I were a student.righ t now.i would be planning my revenge for this ridiculous.stereotype

Hells yeah

I’m now worrying about all the politics students

(That’s lighthearted by the well before anyone ‘yells’ at me)

But being serious i agree with you OP

Like all of life there will be some students having a good time, some miserable and some really really struggling

My dd is doing a foundation course but thankfully is in a house and not halls (didnt think that when i saw her room but im very pleased about this now!)

I think people are saying, face to face is the best way forward wrt teaching quality and mental health, but if unis do decide to online teach then they should not be holding students to their Halls accommodation contract. They can’t have it both ways financially .

@Quarks69

😀 sue Ellen I am not used to talking on line with someone as knackered as I am right now! Yes I can see teachers and lecturers are in the same boat, I should direct my parental frustration to someone else!! So who Is responsible for saying...yes schools teach face to face, ( at £5k per state school child) but no unis shouldn’t (at £9k per student)? ..

Well it certainly isn't the academics fault. Most of us want to teach f2f. I suspect we'll be told by the government to move online at some point- a proposition that has brought me to tears this week. My online content is excellent but I love teaching f2f.

Universities are following guidance from the DfE - we have tiers that we will move between which determines how much f2f teaching we should be offering and this is determined by the situation on campus and national restrictions.

The union is pushing for fully online but they aren't necessarily representative of all academics views.

I know some universities that have a large number of cases amongst freshers have moved most of the first year teaching online for the time being which is a sensible option. But these decisions are being made on an individual basis.

And you mustn't think online is a cop out. It really isn't. As an academic I'm very aware of the importance of students satisfaction so apart from the fact I want to give my students an excellent experience, I have to if I value my job.

Oh and he 9k thing. Universities still need to pay staff and pay for the expensive online platforms so that's not really an argument.
The government have told us not to reduce fees and won't support the sector financially so your anger should be aimed at them

My ds2 is off to uni today for the first time. I'm really worried for him. Yes he could have stayed at home as most things are online and he's only going 30 miles away but if he wants to live in halls at any point during the next year, he'd have to pay for this term - no option to move in in January for example.
We considered deferring but the uni was strongly discouraging it and all he'd have done is spent a year in his room playing video games, because there are no jobs and travel is out of the window. And the gap in studying could set him back academically.
The lack of freshers stuff didn't put him off too much, he's not a party animal. If he gets on with his flat mates it won't be so bad, but if he doesn't it's going to be very lonely.

@larrygrylls

To be honest, the pandemic has been a catalyst for bringing New Labour’s great deception home to roost.

We are getting far too many people to do degrees with zero value. So they see Uni as three years of socialising and, when that is curtailed, there is not much left except a pile of debt at the end.

And, of course, poor unis have become a money making factory.

We should be educating max 25% of people in universities.

Im quick to tell you that i dont agree 😀

So i thought I’d let you know that I completely agree with your post

The situation in no different than many other people face isolating on there own and having to sort there own food out.
It's hardly a surprise that this has happened it was a risk they took by going.
There adults why should the uni have to wipe there arse spending there resources patrolling corridors telling them not to have parties.
If they want hand sanitiser buy it like everyone else has to.

For the person on here whose niece is self-isolating and stuck with someone who appears to be having a mental health crisis- first have they got in touch with the wellbeing services at the university (not just those doing the isolation/food deliveries). They should write emails to their tutors and/or the Students Guild and ask for urgent help for this person. Also, if I were this person's parent, as soon as isolation was over (or sooner if I was genuinely concerned) I would pick them up from uni myself. Sometimes you have to do what's right for you, even if it's not entirely within the rules, Finally- when this idea of staying for Christmas was mooted, and it doesn't look like it's happening, even one of the Scottish ministers said that if the person had mental health issues it wouldn't apply.

If someone is having a mental health crisis, then you can bend the rules (IMO)- just as DC bent the rules when he had a childcare crisis. I think often people are hemming themselves in with rules that may or may not exist and I wouldn't sacrifice someone's mental health for that.

That said- why is everyone calling for online only teaching? Online can be absolutely fab- but internet connections are not great in the UK, we are not covered in fibre-optic broadband like South Korea, the gov't was slow to roll this and it's not great when it has, many people pay for cheap internet and doing Teams/Zoom is just about doable on a good day but not doable on a bad. Online learning requires stable fast broadband, which we haven't quite got in place yet.

Plus as SueEllenMishke says, everyone was adamant, including the gov't, that face to face and back to normal was the way to go in July- they were telling everyone to return to the office for starters! People were outraged at the idea of online university teaching when schools were face to face.

Now, it looks 'obvious' that we should have gone completely online! Although then they are just sitting in their bedrooms, in halls or in parents homes, so I'm not sure that's great for mental health at all.

It's a moveable feast and the universities are trying to catch up. I'm still offering face to face seminars and have chosen to do so, with lots of online content and online seminars for those that can't make it/won't be on campus.

Lots of young people are enjoying being away from home and being a bit independent even if they aren't getting the full experience. If I were a parent, I would encourage them to go even if things aren't perfect, but be prepared to retreat and do what's best for them individually if it is just too much.

I feel for them, but it will be a positive for some students. Not all want to socialise in big groups or party or go clubbing! Uni can be a horrible place for shy or isolative students when you’re expected to be drunk and party all the time!

I didn’t go home every XMas as a student. Some years I chose to stay on campus as I was working or studying. Lots of others did the same, especially those from overseas or students who don’t celebrate Xmas. It’s not a massive hardship.

Its a shit situation but Im so sick of hearing about the students.
What about the poor elderly people in care homes. They literally have been in jail, yes for their own safety but still. It must be horrendous. These old people all worked and contributed to the economy for the majority of their lives and there has not been such a fuss for their situation.
We are all making sacrafices during a horrendous time. It is what it is.

All this to protect the sodding ‘boomers’. The most selfish generation that have ever walked the earth..

Here we go again.......

It really fucks me off when people on here and elsewhere online say about uni students, 'They have to suck it up' etc.

I can only imagine that these people have very young kids or much older if they don't see 17, 18, 19 year olds as very young adults who will suffer greatly.

My son is 18, suffers depression, and will not cope with quarantining. I have told him to come home if there is lockdown where here is - I couldn't give a fuck what this useless, U-turny, clueless government says.

As for 'do you have an alternative plan'?

Yes, yes I do.

This virus affects a TINY proportion of the population and it is still a virus that is dangerous almost exclusively for elderly and serious health conditions. That is awful. My own parents are in the high risk group but they and me believe we GET ON WITH LIFE and the vulnerable shield until there is an affective vaccine.

We need to live with this virus.

12309845653ghydrv I don't know which universities you're referring to; My university made no bones about teaching being online for the first semester. All teaching has been online (as have pastoral sessions) since March.

Unis have had long enough to figure out how to implement social distancing so courses can still run.

Not given that the rules keep changing, and not when in some cases they would need to buy or build new buildings - in the space of a few months - to have enough labs and lecture theatres to fit everyone in but stay far enough apart.

sixthtimelucky totally agree. An18year old is leaving home for the first time, how can people on here be so nasty. Do they really think a student has the resilience of an older experienced person? Do they really not understand the loneliness of a new town with no friends? This is not about pub shutting and no drinking...it’s about the lack of opportunity to find friends.

does this makesnce this is called Mumsnet, it’s about being a parent. Go moan on grand net, if you can’t be constructive.

@DoctorDoctor

Unis have had long enough to figure out how to implement social distancing so courses can still run.

Not given that the rules keep changing, and not when in some cases they would need to buy or build new buildings - in the space of a few months - to have enough labs and lecture theatres to fit everyone in but stay far enough apart.

Campuses and teaching spaces are all Covid secure .... that's not the problem.

It's halls, shared housing and socialising

@Rocinante39

Students are being treated appallingly both at the moment and for the last decade or so.

British University has become a money-making disgrace with little interest in the education and development of young adults.

I agree, students are now cash cows, and it's not even as if there are even enough well paid professional roles for them to fill after they have gained their credentials

agree, students are now cash cows, and it's not even as if there are even enough well paid professional roles for them to fill after they have gained their credentials

Pre Covid the graduate labour market was quite buoyant.......