To insist on having someone competent take blood?

[nervousnelly8]

Just back from a GTT appointment. First sample taken fine by a midwife, drank the drink and waited the 2 hours for the second sample. As I'm waiting, I hear 2 others having a difficult time having bloods taken. One of them faints. Two nurses are having a conversation (with the door open) - one saying how useless she is at taking blood and that she hopes she gets better.

I'm called in to the room where nurse is, visibly nervous about trying to take my blood. I'm not great with needles, don't have great veins and already feeling a bit iffy after no food and the lovely sugar drink.

She tries and fails 4 times to take my blood, at which point I say please could you get someone else. She says no, I can do it. The fifth time, she hits something really painful and blood literally spurts everywhere - all over me, the pillow I've got my arm on, the chair I'm sitting on. I swore loudly and told her to get someone else, at which point she huffs "Fine!" And storms out. The next woman got it first time.

I realise I probably shouldn't have sworn, but it wasn't at her, just at the significant pain and blood everywhere (and it wasn't a conscious thing!). WIBU to make her get someone else? I wish I had refused to have her in the first place tbh. She was so put out when I told her she couldn't try again, it's made me doubt myself!

I was always taught to try twice and if you fail get someone else to have a bash . I wouldn’t be offended if someone asked for someone else , I’m an expert at it now but I know when to quit .

We have a '3 stabs and you are out' rule for doctors taking blood on my ward.

I'm a nurse and fairly sure it's our hospital policy that 3 is the maximum amount of attempts you get at taking blood, anymore and you ask someone else.

She doesn't sound competent enough to take blood unsupervised. Not surprised you swore at her.

My DD has tiny veins. Unfortunately, she's had one planned operation and four emergencies. They really struggle to get a needle/calendular needle in her - she usually comes out with bruised veins in a few places. It's on her notes that the surgeon has taken over from the anesthetist twice and, yes, we've witnessed a third nurse being called who refused. Regrettably, everyone has to learn, but her failure was not to ask for help. Might be that she's still quite inexperienced/training though. Not a great experience for you.

The thing is, you don't generally want someone senior. You want someone who is taking blood day in day out. I got on better with phlebotomists than doctors- inliterally have one vein you can get blood out of now.

This is so true. None of the doctors at my surgery will even try and take blood from me now. Even the practise nurse much prefers if I can get into the treatment room nurse as she takes much more blood every day.

I had a student do stitches after my first birth. One of the worst, most humiliating experiences of my entire life. No, I wasn’t asked if it was ok.

Arghh I have had this several times when I get bloods taken. I've just taken to saying apparently I have slow/flat veins as it's generally a junior medic. They are generally OK and will only attempt twice and then go get someone else. But after one bad session of 2 missed shots in each arm and a nurse eventually going for the back of my hand I looked like a junkie with the bruising!

Apparently the trick is to drink lots of water prior.

I think most wards/surgeries have their own "vampires" who can get blood from anyone... Most often found around haematology and among the phlebotomists, but there are usually some nurses/midwives who have the knack!

The protocol is no more that two attempts and def no more than three

My veins are awful - apparently.

When I was pregnant and have HG and was in hospital. A doctor tried to take blood from my wrist and got a nerve - the pain was horrendous.

The best I have had was an anaesthetist

Im a vet nurse, sometimes you have a bad vein day - i have a strict two stab rule. If i cant hit the vein the second attempt ill hand it over.

For those of you saying she should be given a chance, have you actually ever had blood taken? And if so has anyone struggled to get it out?
I am hellishly awful to get blood from, there is a note on my medical record that only certain people are allowed to do it. The last time there was a last minute swap so I had the flappy nurse, who seemingly had no idea how to deal with any challenge. 6 attempts later I passed out, hit my head and ended up in A&E with concussion.
It is just a nightmare to sit there like a pincushion waiting for an inept individual to try to pull themselves enough to take the blood.
I have had anaesthetists fail and collapse my veins, but some phlebotomists get it first time with no probs.

After years of having blood taken I now only let someone experienced do it. If you've got thin or collapsed veins that is not the time to let a newbie stab away.

She needs to learn somehow but she should have got someone else the first time your asked.

Off topic but I had a telephone consultation with the GP this afternoon and he asked me to go in for a blood test tomorrow. What amused me was that he said he’d do it himself as he was bored with phone calls and wanted to see a patient f2f!!

Given that you said "no" after umpteen failed attempts, isn't that assault?

It's only informed consent that protects medics, and probably other health practitioners, from being guilty of assault.

I can remember having 2 phlebotomists having umpteen goes at each arm trying to get enough blood for thyroid function tests. I've given blood over 30 times ffs, but I think it took them nearly 10 goes between them.

Not long after this I left the UK for France, where the equivalent of the district nurse comes to the house to take blood and then delivers it to the lab for analysis. 1 was awful, used to get cross with me when she couldn't get a sample to save her life.

I started going to the lab - especially as know 2 of the technicians from the PTA. They're brilliant, I can't watch, but only 1 has ever failed to get a sample, she was new and assured me she was expert - perhaps it was a test at the end of her trial period. She had one try and asked a colleague to take over. Admittedly, I get a little nervous, as there have been too many times when they're rummaging around in my arm to find a vein. The inside of my elbow is full of scars from blood samples, so it's obvious they've found veins before.

The upside, from the nurses at the blood donor centre in Manchester, is that if I'm ever suicidal, their professional opinion was that slashing my wrists wouldn't work as I'm such a slow bleeder it would clot before it killed me. Black sense of humour some people!

I do have to look away when they take blood and after reading this thread if they can’t do it right the first time I will ask them to get someone with more experience.

The BEST phlebotomist I ever had one this really quiet, youngish guy, full tattoo sleeves and a skin head. I did not feel a damn thing, he was so fast, so gentle and he gave me a shy smile when I told him how awesome he was. I mean, no one likes having blood taken so I was elated at how untraumatic it was. Especially as I was in A&E after an accident.

I am an ink fan and make absolutely no judgement of tattoos or his shaved head. He was so ace. I also didn’t think ‘uh oh’ when I saw him, before people leap on me. I just wanted to paint a picture as his appearance was probably less usual in a clinical world. Sadly.

I am a community HCSW and my mornings are just taking bloods at house bound patients, a lot of the time these are urgent bloods but we still have a 3 tries and that’s it. I have gotten very good at judging which type of needle to use, majority of my patients are elderly so can have very thready veins that need to be immobilised by holding the skin taught, and where is best to go. Sometimes veins can begin to harden from overuse but I’d you move slightly further up or down it’s can be a winner.

I am the vampire that is usually carted out even my patients call me that

6 months pregnant I lay down once for bloods and a nervous looking nurse tried to take blood and actually said 'what's wrong with you? I can't find a vein'.

At which point I thought 'noooooo way' and got up and asked for the phlebotomist, who always did it with minimum fuss and no trouble (or alarming commentary!).

It was totally unprofessional of her to have five goes and also insist despite you saying please stop. I'd have jumped up after go 2, I think!

@JustLetMeLookAtTheFuckingHam,
Sorry, just saw this. I'd say it was definitely unusual to get an anaesthetist to do bloods-you must have challenging veins, indeed!

When I was last in hospital for chemo, the rule was two attempts then get someone else. Is that not the rule everywhere?

I'm an experienced phleb and do a lot of difficult blood tests but even I encounter patient's I can't get blood out of - sometimes you just need a second set of eyes! Two or three goes is my limit though, if the patient was particularly nervous and I missed the first time I might not even have a second attempt and just hand over to someone else as it's important as a HCP for patient's to have confidence in you.

Five attempts when you didn't consent to the fifth is just ridiculous. Midwives and school nurses seem to be the worst blood-takers in my experience and I often get sent their patient's where they have failed to get their blood.

I was accused of being a rascist this week. I need my bloods done every 6 months to monitor a condition I have. I don't have the best veins, apparently they are deep and narrow. There are two nurses who do the bloods. A and B. A always struggles and I end up with bruises. B generally gets it first time, hardly ever bruises. When I rang to book I was told I was with nurse A. I asked for nurse B and was grumpily told I couldn't book based on the nurses ethnicity! Nurse A is black, nurse B is Polish. The colour of her skin had nothing to do with my request. If nurse A was best at getting the blood I would ask for her. Anyway, I saw nurse A and after 3 goes she had to go and get nurse B. What a waste of time.

I wouldn't be happy either, four attempts is excessive and five is even more so.

I have tricky veins and have been advised my multiple HCPs to ask people to go straight to the back of my hand. Some are good and agree but others refuse and insist on two failed arm attempts first. So I end up being pricked 3 times and get big bruises on both arms and my hand. I have EDS so I bruise easily - my blood test bruises are spectacular!

One had to take blood from my wrist, which wasn't fun

I aim for a particular nurse at my surgery who has only failed to get blood out on one occasion of many blood tests (he succeeded on attempt two). I don't know what sorcery he deploys but I wish all blood takers had his skill.