Aibu to think the new Sunak scheme is woeful

[Marg33t]

New scheme is going to make lots of people lose their homes and starve.

Employers to pay 1/3rd of wages is way too high. They will cut viable jobs that will bounce back otherwise.

I'm happy to pay my taxes for all that need it to continue to receive furlough as this scheme will keep people in poverty.

Aibu to think it's a mistep?

Tory thinking is very old fashioned.

www.waterstones.com/book/the-deficit-myth/stephanie-kelton/9781529352528

@Marg33t

Honestly this thread is so grim, some people know the value of nothing and don't understand basic knock on effects.

Mn has really gone downhill

Not at all. It’s the economic reality.

People value the arts and it will re emerge but we cannot pay for everyone to be inactive until it does.

People value the arts and it will re emerge but we cannot pay for everyone to be inactive until it does.
Actually we could - it's a political choice not to.

We are being hammered. Highest deaths and highest cost out of all countries.

Running arts will contribute to former, paying the latter.

There’s no way anyone in the arts won’t bounce back to it when they can, when demand is no longer suppressed.

Major and iconic venues are paid in the meantime with a payout.

Those who did work had to diversify and retrain - quite a few ex miners became teachers because there was a shortage. But many of them simply refused to do anything else and became long term unemployed

The mine closures programme took place at at time where unemployment was high and disproportionately so in the manual trades. Miners lacked transferable skills, unskilled manual work was in short supply and many did not have the qualifications they needed to train for professional jobs, like teaching.

Manufacturing was the sector hardest hit by that recession. Construction virtually ground to a standstill outside the south-east. Training opportunities fell victim to Thatcher's cuts and in many areas there was very little work to train for.

They didn't "simply refuse" to do anything else. There wasn't anything else to do for many of them, unless they were prepared to move hundreds of miles away.

I know 2 ex-miners (one from Notts, one from S Wales) who moved to Sussex because their wives came from here. One became a prison officer. The other was unemployed for over a year, but his wife got the job of caretaker at the school in the village she grew up in, and it came with a flat. They shoehorned their 4 children into a 2-bed flat, and stayed like that until the eldest left home at 17.

Few families were able to just up sticks and move hundreds of miles to places where they knew no-one.

Few families were able to just up sticks and move hundreds of miles to places where they knew no-one
But that isn’t the case now. Yes there are fewer jobs available, but they’re distributed all over the country. There’s no reason why people who previously worked in the arts can’t apply for different jobs. But every single arts person I know is sitting on their bum claiming universal credit, and freely admits that they intend to do so until arts work picks up again. I don’t know how they’re getting away with it because usually you’re expected to apply for jobs as a condition of receiving benefits!

@LakieLady

Those who did work had to diversify and retrain - quite a few ex miners became teachers because there was a shortage. But many of them simply refused to do anything else and became long term unemployed

The mine closures programme took place at at time where unemployment was high and disproportionately so in the manual trades. Miners lacked transferable skills, unskilled manual work was in short supply and many did not have the qualifications they needed to train for professional jobs, like teaching.

Manufacturing was the sector hardest hit by that recession. Construction virtually ground to a standstill outside the south-east. Training opportunities fell victim to Thatcher's cuts and in many areas there was very little work to train for.

They didn't "simply refuse" to do anything else. There wasn't anything else to do for many of them, unless they were prepared to move hundreds of miles away.

I know 2 ex-miners (one from Notts, one from S Wales) who moved to Sussex because their wives came from here. One became a prison officer. The other was unemployed for over a year, but his wife got the job of caretaker at the school in the village she grew up in, and it came with a flat. They shoehorned their 4 children into a 2-bed flat, and stayed like that until the eldest left home at 17.

Few families were able to just up sticks and move hundreds of miles to places where they knew no-one.

It wasn't a great employment market at the time, agreed. However, lots of people move hundreds of miles or to other countries or even continents in search of jobs and that isn't a new thing, it's always been the case. It's a bit of a stretch to say people previously working in mining had no possible opportunity to find any type of work anywhere else or to retrain for a new profession during the several decades since the mining industry in the UK shrank.

In two minds here.

On the one hand, there are reported to be unprofitable "zombie" companies who are only putting staff on furlough so they can continue to be a going concern, pay dividends to directors etc. Case in point something like Victoria Beckham's fashion line. Possibly this can't be funded indefinitely if companies are being opportunistic.

On the other hand, I am terrified of what we are heading into, and feel like it's inevitably now going to be like the 1990s where the pain was felt disproportionately by the unlucky people who weren't in a chair when the music stopped. It feels like a hideous way to run a civilised society - where people are highly skilled employees one minute and destitute the next. It's pretty brutal to say "unlucky, your job is no longer needed"

I guess I'm stating the bleeding obvious - therein lies the whole left-right wing axis of politics!

Gosh I've read all the messages above and really no-one knows what will happen, nor can they. Why can't we do distancing in the theatres. Can we not do the mask and the visor and the gloves, no interval for us but maybe the actors. Buy those very thin macs with hood u get for the rain abroad and throw away in bins when you leave???
Curfew for restaurants I really don't see the reason for this, eq

ua distancing I believe is enough. Seated at tables.
I can understand the pubs with the crowding but I wouldn't go there!
Maybe I think this way because I haven't lost anyone to Covid19 and only known of one person who contracted it !!!!

I would raise taxes of high earners (myself included btw)

What is your definition of a high earner?

Why can't we do distancing in the theatres
Theatres can’t make a profit if they can only sell 25% of the seats.

The government's rich friends will get richer as they will buy all the repossessed houses up and then rent them back to people, however as most won't be able to afford rent as no jobs will they then claim housing benefit?

There are a lot of people in skilled jobs, ie and just ie, airline pilots , some of whom have called those claiming benefits, scroungers and think they should be sweeping the streets. Love to be a fly on the wall when they start their benefit claims and see how they are treated and what jobs they might be offered.

Okay, sorry if you think I’m being ignorant.... but can these people not get a job in Tesco/Mark and Spencer’s etc. Just to tide them over ? They can surely downgrade their lifestyles for a little while!!!

It’s seems rather entitled to expect full wages for no work ? We are all suffering here!

SleepaholicsAnonymous

Trouble is nowadays further education and adult education is practically non existent they haven't been funded for years, plus you can't access training at a level below the one you already have unless you pay yourself. We need Life Long Learning back and access to loans (although I believe all education should be free as benefits society) at lower levels than you already have or how can you retrain or get a new qualification to move to a different occupation. I noticed one of the best places near me no longer offers upholstery or stone carving.
There used to be free computer classes too.

I think the plan is very short sighted.
The majority of people still on furlough are those from industries that the current government restrictions are stopping from operating. This plan will not help those people as most of those industries haven’t made any money with which to pay people, and in some areas like travel, have had to refund all their takings from around August last year onwards.
All these people will still lose their jobs come the end of October id imagine.

It doesn’t make sense to me as to why the scheme has been opened up to all businesses, whether they used the furlough scheme or not- surely it would’ve ended up being cheaper to leave those still on furlough, on furlough and not allow any more sign ups to that scheme.
Now the government will be subsidising an untold number of salaries as well as having lost the treasury contributions of those who work in sectors this scheme does not support- not to mention a large number of those will undoubtedly end up having to claim universal credit.

This whole discussion about what is a ‘viable’ job is infuriating because we are not going to be in this pandemic forever- just the next 6-12 months (hopefully) and yet so many seem to be ok with whole industries being decimated because the government has said they cannot operate right now.
It seems that everything that enriches our lives- the arts, entertainment, travel, sport, hospitality- is being eradicated.

@Malachite234 I’d gladly work in a supermarket but currently none within a 30-40 minute commute from my house have any vacancies.
They also require you to be able to work shifts, early mornings, nights, weekends etc
I’m a lone parent with no familial support to 2 kids, I can’t leave them home alone to work all night or all weekend when there’s no paid for childcare available.
There’s also hundreds of people applying for each and every job so it’s not simply a case of picking up a new job to tide you over- the job market at the moment is brutal

I agree. A lot of jobs can't operate at the moment and so cannot offer staff part time work. The deadline for mass redundancies is 1st October. I think we will be hearing about a lot of job losses over the next few weeks.

The problem is that resources are finite.

People will lose their jobs, that is clear and the only thing that can be done is raise the taxes of the richest 1% and all those in the redundancy category needs to start looking for other work.

It may sound obvious but I know of a significant portion of population who are not willing to do any job, they only want to do what they enjoy or trained for: that is no longer an option.

They can all start by looking at frontline jobs: supermarkets, care homes, hospitals etc. because lord knows there is plenty of work going in those areas.

Beggers can't be chosers and this is no time for ego.

But the arts won't die will they? Like every business, some theatres, cinemas and galleries will close. Some artists will fall by the wayside. Some will find a way to get through, online sales of artwork, online gigs. When we start to get back to going out again, some theatres, galleries and other venues will open to make money from those who want to go, and if there is enough demand others will open. Maybe we will see the return of more live shows in pubs and the like. Maybe the prices of entry will have to drop to persuade people to go out. It is going to be tough for the near future, but to say the arts will die is a tad overdramatic.

@QuestionableDanceMoves I understand, but that won’t be the case for everyone surely ?

What about agency work for an office ? Bank work on the NHS, cleaning ?

I’m in Scotland and there do seem to be jobs, albeit low paid. A girl I met lost her job and with no horsey experience is now a stable hand on minimum wage.

@MarshaBradyo can you link to the details of payouts to venues, please? My son's string quartet just did an online concert for a hall who asked them to waive their payment to support the hall. It was a wonderful perrformance, put together in just one week after over 4 months of not being able to rehearse and they got not one penny for their trouble. It's heartbreaking.

@Malachite234 obviously I can only speak with regards to my own circumstances and not for the entire job seeking population.

All I know is that the number of jobs out there at the moment are in high demand and if you are unable to work outside of a bog standard 9-5, like me, then you’re in real trouble because those jobs are few and far between.

@QuestionableDanceMoves

You know I really feel for you because it’s difficult for you to be flexible. But for others I feel they should diversify - I’m an unemployed doctor! I did my undergraduate training abroad and all exams which would allow me to take up employment have been cancelled and I have had to take a poorly paid job. Luckily I don’t have kids, but it’s still hard. And it’s hard for the majority of the population.

What if those that could diversify did, and in turn, supported those who couldn’t. But I just don’t feel that our society have that kind of mindset.

I really appreciate the arts, but I think at the moment it’s survival mode. What I didn’t understand was why furloughed workers weren’t redeployed ..... perhaps to test and trace!