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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to think the new Sunak scheme is woeful

474 replies

Marg33t · 24/09/2020 12:18

New scheme is going to make lots of people lose their homes and starve.

Employers to pay 1/3rd of wages is way too high. They will cut viable jobs that will bounce back otherwise.

I'm happy to pay my taxes for all that need it to continue to receive furlough as this scheme will keep people in poverty.

Aibu to think it's a mistep?

OP posts:
MaxNormal · 24/09/2020 15:35

But I don't want to start pointing fingers at other sectors and fighting over crumbs, I'd rather stand in solidarity with everyone shafted by this.

MarshaBradyo · 24/09/2020 15:36

@MaxNormal

Was it unfairly dished out?

The impression was that it was to support the arts and live events sectors but it seemed to mostly go to arts venues that already get some council/government funding, commercial live events companies (that pay huge amounts in tax ordinarily) and the army of freelancers they support, didn't see any of it.

You’re right but freelancers have been looked after
movingonup20 · 24/09/2020 15:36

There's specific funding for the arts over and above this, I'm in the middle of writing an application. This scheme is for employers with reduced business who are likely to see it increasing relatively soon to encourage them to keep staff employed. It isn't for businesses not currently running

Gettinggrumpier · 24/09/2020 15:39

[quote Cadent]@MaxNormal I'm on side with everyone that is affected too, but I'm worried that those that had better jobs are seen as deserving better benefits.[/quote]
This!

It seems we are a lot of people are happy to accept a two tier benefit system.

What about those that lost their jobs before the pandemic and are expected to live on jobseeker's allowance? But hey ho, as long as we don't get too many middle class people having to suffer claiming and living on Universal Credit, that's alright. Confused.

LonelyFromCorona · 24/09/2020 15:39

Stop furlough and stop lockdown immediately. Vulnerable to self isolate.

anuffername · 24/09/2020 15:40

So this thread is not about arts but live music and theatre

Live music and theatre are "the arts".

It is being discussed because somebody upthread suggested that working in "the arts" was just a hobby.

dollypartonscoat · 24/09/2020 15:40

@ChromaBook so now do you think they should open up with subsidies rather than your original plan that would cripple many more people if you raised their taxes?

It's unclear which plan you think the government should follow when you just comment "exactly" on several posts

SleepaholicsAnonymous · 24/09/2020 15:42

The problem is that employers make economic decisions, particularly when they are struggling to survive.

From the employer's point of view, if they have three people on the same pay but only enough work for one, they can either:

a) keep one employee, make two redundant, pay 1 x a single salary

b) keep two employees doing 50% hours each, and make one redundant. They will then pay 1.66 x a single salary

c) keep all three employees doing 33% hours each. Then they will pay 1.66 x a single salary.

So they will choose option a)

MaxNormal · 24/09/2020 15:42

@MarshaBradyo we have seen more that have fallen through the cracks. Sole traders who have received only a small amount of what their takings would have been, or been inelible for various reasons. Those that are limited (most of them, not for tax avoidance purposes but because the employing companies require it) have got varying amounts of furlough but that is now obviously coming to an end and the new scheme is of no help if you have literally no work on and no income coming in.

So as I've said, cracks are now widening to chasms.

dollypartonscoat · 24/09/2020 15:42

"Live music and theatre are "the arts"" Confused

Not painting or music teaching or writing or comedy or drawing then.....?

ChromaBook · 24/09/2020 15:43

so now do you think they should open up with subsidies

I've always thought that; it's the government saying they can't open at all, not me.

I'm sorry that I don't have the words for everything, I'm in an extremely bad place right now.

kirinm · 24/09/2020 15:43

@rosie1959

As far as support goes the Government continues to do as much as it can Woeful it's totally OTT
Have you seen the amount of wasted money the government have given to private companied during this crisis? Perhaps if they stopped bunging their mates cash, they could help the sectors that THEY are closing down.
ChromaBook · 24/09/2020 15:43

your original plan that would cripple many more people if you raised their taxes?

Which people would be crippled by raised taxes? You do realise I was including my DH and I in that?

Cadent · 24/09/2020 15:44

Thanks MaxNormal.

I guess I just want any help to be equal. As zaffa says, a basic safety net for all. I don't have your understanding of the situation, as I'm not within that sector, but I think where we perceive one group to be getting special treatment (which I realise may not be the case), it could cause resentment.

MaxNormal · 24/09/2020 15:44

@ChromaBook Flowers

ChromaBook · 24/09/2020 15:45

What about those that lost their jobs before the pandemic and are expected to live on jobseeker's allowance? But hey ho, as long as we don't get too many middle class people having to suffer claiming and living on Universal Credit, that's alright

But literally no one on this thread has said that it's totally fine for others to have lost their jobs as long as MC people don't? You and others have completely invented that.

ChromaBook · 24/09/2020 15:45

I think where we perceive one group to be getting special treatment (which I realise may not be the case), it could cause resentment.

TBH I doubt that anyone with any knowledge of the arts sector at all would ever perceive that it gets "special treatment". It's been decimated and undervalued for years, whatever the public perception.

MarshaBradyo · 24/09/2020 15:47

@anuffername

So this thread is not about arts but live music and theatre

Live music and theatre are "the arts".

It is being discussed because somebody upthread suggested that working in "the arts" was just a hobby.

Yes of course they are what a thing to pick up on. Confused honestly people just pick

This thread has been broader than what is under the most threat.

There’s no point in saying all arts are under threat when much of it is operating

motheroftwoboys · 24/09/2020 15:47

The Arts is also TV and Film which is - usually - a massive income earner for the country. The huge majority of workers in the Industry are freelance and have no prospect of work for ages yet.

MaxNormal · 24/09/2020 15:48

Cadent we're in agreement definitely.

As I've said, this knock-on affects so many, the taxi driver who works in the city, the barista at Starbucks at Heathrow T5, the cleaner at the hotel in the West End.... all facing the same loss of their livelihood.

StarCat2020 · 24/09/2020 15:48

I am not sure what the answer is but normally if you lose your job and have no other option the only option is Universal Credit (which is shit).

Devil's advocate here. It (maybe) could be said that the furlough scheme payments were creating two systems, some people on UC and some on furlough???

MarshaBradyo · 24/09/2020 15:49

Yes the knock in effect is big which is why I think Sunak is doing the right thing and broadening the scheme to all SME

Moondust001 · 24/09/2020 15:51

@Marg33t

New scheme is going to make lots of people lose their homes and starve.

Employers to pay 1/3rd of wages is way too high. They will cut viable jobs that will bounce back otherwise.

I'm happy to pay my taxes for all that need it to continue to receive furlough as this scheme will keep people in poverty.

Aibu to think it's a mistep?

I am by no means a supporter of this government, any time, any place. But you are wrong. It is not "your taxes" that pay for this. "Your taxes" ran out a long time ago - it is a national debt, already standing at £2trillion, that your children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will still be paying off. And that's not even getting me started on the cost that BREXIT will add to the bill - blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2020/08/26/a-no-deal-brexit-may-still-be-more-costly-than-covid-19/

All that aside, I am perplexed. Perhaps a Tory voter can explain to me. How does paying a large proportion of someone's wages result on people losing their homes and starving, but paying them a pittance on Universal Credit doesn't??? Or don't the already poor count in the grand scheme of things?

dollypartonscoat · 24/09/2020 15:51

"Which people would be crippled by raised taxes? You do realise I was including my DH and I in that?"

Well yes, because I pointed that out. But just because you're in a position in your life where you can afford to pay more tax, many people in expensive areas on your income aren't. You'd fix literally nothing by increasing those taxes

A combined household income of 120k in many parts of the country isn't much at all. People base their lives around their wages. They take loans and mortgages and aren't left with much at all.....you want those people taxed even more despite the fact that they wouldn't be eligible for any help with those outgoings. Despite the fact that raising the taxes of those people wouldn't generate anything. It doesn't work like that.

dollypartonscoat · 24/09/2020 15:53

"Or don't the already poor count in the grand scheme of things?"

Indeed.

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