To wonder whether Boris and his cronies give Eton a bad name.

[Dustballs]

I wonder whether schools like this will be affected negatively as a result?

@AriettyHomily

Just wondering if those that dismiss Eton or similar would refuse it if they could finance it?

Absolutely I would. DS will attend state schools all the way. A divided education system widens inequality.

@nosswith

Mr Johnson is not typical of those who went there. Do we think badly of the school Harold Shipman or Rose West went to?

I think BJ seems entirely representative of Eton, as do his cronies who seem to disproprtionately dominate positions of wealth and power despite any lack of discernable ability and integrity.

@TheNavigator

I would think Boris would be the best possible advert for the sort of parent who would send their kid to Eton. It doesn't matter how useless, thick and unprincipled your offspring are, you can still buy them success, money and power. Utterly vomitous, in my opinipon.

Did you go to Eton? Know someone who did recently?

Eton is one of the top 10 academic schools in the country. Gone are the days where you could buy yourself a place with money and status. You have to pass the common entrance with flying colours, it's as simple as that. Up to 90% of Eton's pupils are on a bursary (whether it be 10% or 90%) because they don't want money to be a reason why someone talented/bright enough can't go. Don't get me wrong, there will be plenty of rich and bright children who go there with parents who are of the Boris variety. But gone are the days where one should assume that every child who goes to Eton (or Harrow etc) are a certain type and neither are there parents.
The fact is, you get 'vomitous' types in all schools...private or not.

I would like to state that I have never gone to a private school nor would I be sending mine to one, nor do I have any affiliation with Eton!

Surely the people who send their children to Eton mostly love the idea of elitism and the sense of self-importance that it creates.

I don't agree with this. I went to Oxbridge (state school, council house); I was, and remain to a degree, a bit of a class warrior. I strongly dislike elitism and everything it stands for.

This said, I've met a lot of Old Etonians and Old Harrovians both at university and subsequently, and every one I've ever met has been utterly lovely: kind, gentle, decent, humble, and acutely aware of their privilege. On a class analysis I find the Eton bias in public life to be problematic. But, taking people as individuals, I've not found any of them to be remotely elitist or self-important at all.

The inference I draw is that (eg.) Boris is not an elitist cunt because he is an Old Etonian; it's because he's an elitist cunt. I speculate he would have ended up a (self-loathing) elitist cunt had he come from a more modest background.

Also, I found very many of the second-division public school types were arrogant elitist nobbers (the closest I've ever come to fisticuffs in my adult life was challenging an Old Pauline (ex-St-Pauls) who advised me that it was fine for his family to drink-drive as they had superior genes. He was being completely serious.)

Doubt it, though I do cringe when people mention his Oxford/Classics background as it's mine and I'd hate people to think that we were typical of him!

The inference I draw is that (eg.) Boris is not an elitist cunt because he is an Old Etonian; it's because he's an elitist cunt. I speculate he would have ended up a (self-loathing) elitist cunt had he come from a more modest background.

Yes, but he wouldn't have has the same access to money and power with his small amount of ability and certainly wouldn't have become PM. That is the point.

@MentalLockdown

Who do you look for?

@thedancingbear

Completely agree. I noticed far more affectation from people I met who were from other universities/1992 institutions. I wonder if it is because at Oxford you work so hard and can still make mistakes so that brings you down to earth a bit and that you are in with such a huge concentration of ‘A’ graders that you are actually nothing special. Also, as a student all of the stuff people outside see, you don’t to the same extent - you are there and you see library walls, grey computer lab walls, tutors rooms, etc. After a while you are just thinking of your deadlines.

Yes, but he wouldn't have has the same access to money and power with his small amount of ability and certainly wouldn't have become PM. That is the point.

But that's not elitism ('the belief that a society or system should be led by an elite'), that's simple privilege. I acknowledged that 'On a class analysis I find the Eton bias in public life to be problematic', so we agree on that. My point was that even though having gone to Eton is an undoubted privilege, it is liable neither to make you pro-elite, or a heartless, soulless shithouse (Boris is clearly both).

Also classics at Oxford is an obscenely difficult first degree, whatever school you went to. His intellect may not be prime minister calibre, but to describe him as having a 'small amount of ability' is pretty off-beam.

I think the fact someone as unintelligent and as incompetent as Boris can become PM is what will attract some parents.

The connections, the support to get to Oxbridge, the mixing with 'elites' from both the UK and other countries are what you are paying for, not the education.

Right - so that's what they're paying for ... that's why parents pay the money - yes we all know that.

But "the fact someone as unintelligent and as incompetent as Boris" is a product of that system - surely would put employers off that institution.

He's a bad advert for it - isn't he?

Also classics at Oxford is an obscenely difficult first degree, whatever school you went to.

Oh is it? Is it really? Harder than pure maths at Dundee? Harder than vet med at Edinburgh? Harder than classics anywhere else ever? It is that sort of unqualified assertion that underlines our whole pointless, useless, stupid class system. My degree will always be harder than yours, because I say so. And because everyone with any power has the same degree, they back it up, and the whole unequal charade shambles on.

@Dustballs

Right - so that's what they're paying for ... that's why parents pay the money - yes we all know that.

But "the fact someone as unintelligent and as incompetent as Boris" is a product of that system - surely would put employers off that institution.

He's a bad advert for it - isn't he?

Au contraire, he's an obnoxious liar but he's still got the top job. As people have said, people don't send their sons to Eton for the moral value of it.

Oh is it? Is it really? Harder than pure maths at Dundee? Harder than vet med at Edinburgh? Harder than classics anywhere else ever? It is that sort of unqualified assertion that underlines our whole pointless, useless, stupid class system

For fuck's sake. Yes it is. I know this because I saw two of my closest friends (ordinary backgrounds, ridiculously bright) struggle horrifically with it. The reading and workload is ridiculous and all the time you are having to learn Latin and Ancient Greek. I know what the course entails. You don't.

I'm not in a position to compare it to pure maths at dundee. They may be obscenely difficult too. My point was that, based on my actual knowledge of what Classics at Oxford involves, Boris can't be unintelligent if he's got through the course with a high 2:1.

My husband went to Eton. He's about as far from BJ and his ilk as possible. He was actually there at the same time as our dear PM, but is slightly younger and was definitely not in the same circles. He says that even then he thought they were a bunch of tossers.

My husband doesn't tend to tell people where he went to school now. He is proud of going to Oxford, but that's because he knew he got there on his own merits and worked bloody hard.

@Mamamia456 Because it entrenches and widens social inequality.

Boris isn't unintelligent, far from it. He's just absolutely incompetent and unfit for the office he holds.

@thedancingbear

Oh is it? Is it really? Harder than pure maths at Dundee? Harder than vet med at Edinburgh? Harder than classics anywhere else ever? It is that sort of unqualified assertion that underlines our whole pointless, useless, stupid class system

For fuck's sake. Yes it is. I know this because I saw two of my closest friends (ordinary backgrounds, ridiculously bright) struggle horrifically with it. The reading and workload is ridiculous and all the time you are having to learn Latin and Ancient Greek. I know what the course entails. You don't.

I'm not in a position to compare it to pure maths at dundee. They may be obscenely difficult too. My point was that, based on my actual knowledge of what Classics at Oxford involves, Boris can't be unintelligent if he's got through the course with a high 2:1.

You do know the difference between academic and intelligent? No? A couple of your mates struggling on a course is, I'm afraid, not sufficient to convince me that means it is obscenely difficult. As you say, you have absolutely no idea how obscenely difficult or otherwise other qualifications may be.

Boris rose to the top in a system designed for him and his ilk. It doesn't say much for the system, really, does it?

Gone are the days where you could buy yourself a place with money and status. You have to pass the common entrance with flying colours, it's as simple as that.

Er... Prince Harry?

My husband doesn't tend to tell people where he went to school now. He is proud of going to Oxford, but that's because he knew he got there on his own merits and worked bloody hard.

Sorry, but no Etonian got into Oxford purely on their own merits.

A couple of your mates struggling on a course is, I'm afraid, not sufficient to convince me that means it is obscenely difficult

I'm not interested in convincing you of anything, I'm just sharing my view. What I will say is that I am speaking from a position of direct knowledge (it's an absolute dog of a degree) and you are speaking from ignorance and prejudice.

Boris rose to the top in a system designed for him and his ilk. It doesn't say much for the system, really, does it?

I don't think the system is designed for them otherwise I wouldn't've survived it (state school, council house, PPE at oxford). It certainly favours them.

My husband doesn't tend to tell people where he went to school now. He is proud of going to Oxford, but that's because he knew he got there on his own merits and worked bloody hard.

Yes, I'm struggling with that too. I believe you (based, again, on knowing lots of old etonians) that he is lovely and hard-working. But he had quite an advantage over almost everyone else. Whether that means he didn't 'get there on his own merits' is a matter of semantics.

I'm not interested in convincing you of anything, I'm just sharing my view. What I will say is that I am speaking from a position of direct knowledge (it's an absolute dog of a degree) and you are speaking from ignorance and prejudice.

@thedancingbear - motes and beams? You admitted you don't know about other qualifications when you asserted that a particular degree is particularly hard. What is that but ignorance (you cannot compare whether it is harder than other qualifications as you admit you know nothing about them) and prejudice (your mates say it so it must be true).

I didn't say it was particularly hard. I said it was obscenely hard. I can't compare it to cheese furtling at Southampton (or whatever other shit course you did) because I didn't watch two of my closest friends in the world, and two of the cleverest people I've ever met, work and stress their arses off over a period of three years on those courses, in order just to survive. Maybe the cheese furtlers at southampton (12 UCAS points) are just as bright and find it just as difficult. I doubt it.

TBH you're just making a wally of yourself at this point.

@AriettyHomily

Just wondering if those that dismiss Eton or similar would refuse it if they could finance it?

Yes I certainly would (refuse it).