Being called "person"

[londongirl12]

Was walking back from the gym and my walk goes past a boys secondary school which is next to a park field. As I was walking I heard "excuse me miss, could you get our ball?" as the ball had gone over the school fence and into the park. Another boy said to the first boy "you can't call her miss" so the first boy then said "excuse me person, could you get our ball?" I got their ball, managed somehow to throw it over their high school fence, to great applause which made me smile, but I felt kind of sad that they said couldn't call me miss, they called me person. Clearly they've had their inclusion training that we had at work too. I'm female, so I'm happy to be called miss.

I am technically Mrs but I only use that officially, If I was called Miss in this situation I would perfectly happy with that.

In the North I am I also happy with the expressions they use.

Basically if a persons intention is nice to them then it is nice to me, no matter rules modern society wants to dictate we have to agree to

I wouldn't have returned their ball if I'd been addressed as 'person'.

They should have said please!

Do people not use 'madam'?

I think it's lovely. I also think it's highly plausible that either they were teasing the boy for referring to you as a teacher or teasing him about assuming you're unmarried. I would have found it charming and delightful, not the cause for a woebegone face.

@Itsabeautifuldayheyhey

I wouldn't have returned their ball if I'd been addressed as 'person'.

Oh c'mon. I think both boys were trying to be polite. You can't not return their ball.

I would have preferred lady if they didn't want to get marital title incorrect but that's probably wrong as well

@blueshoes

Do people not use 'madam'?

Not in aus or it makes you a brothel owner lol Yes its not the formal meaning but its the common slang here for female brothel owner. Most from SA will know the name Stormy Summers lol

Call me Miss please lol

They were trying to ask you politely. If you don't mind being a Miss in these situations it's not exactly hard to reply "Miss is fine for me".

I also find it hilarious children receiving a talk about how to refer to people gets people tutting when large swathes of society are still happy to define female honorifics by their marital status.

I live in the US South so it's an easy one for us. It would be ma'am, which as it happens is an abbreviation for madam. And likewise it would be sir for a man.

So I'm curious. What would be the normal form of address in the UK for someone whose name you did not know? If you were walking down the street and saw that a woman dropped something, how would you get her attention?

This reminds me quite a lot of staying at my mother's years ago when I suddenly heard a commotion downstairs so went down and apparently some children had kicked a ball by accident into her front garden but they were terrified they weren't going to get it back as she was threatening to call police.

So I had to hunt around the bushes and throw it back over the fence and say no, police weren't going to be involved. Can't remember how they addressed me, if the boys did at all. They were just terrified of losing their ball.

It must be very confusing for children nowadays with all this correct terminology about gender/sex.

The family next door to us are originally from America. Their kids call me ma'am 😂 They're an adorable family.

So I'm curious. What would be the normal form of address in the UK for someone whose name you did not know? If you were walking down the street and saw that a woman dropped something, how would you get her attention?

Depends where you are. I'd shout "excuse me you've dropped x/y/z" whereas where I grew up they'd just shout "Oi! Oi you, you've dropped something." Neither way acknowledges the gender of the dropper.

I'm not surprised by this. My 12yo ds quite often refers to individual kids at school with a default 'they'. Not because they are actually trans or non-binary or whatever, but apparently to avoid potentially 'misgendering' anyone.

I gently pointed out to him that by doing this, all he is actually doing is 'misgendering' the vast majority of people (who understandably prefer to be called what they actually are, and what everyone can see that they are) instead of potentially misgendering a tiny, tiny minority of people (who would almost certainly have made it clear to everyone if they wanted to be called 'they').

Incidentally, I don't think I've ever heard anyone below the age of about 30 call a woman 'madam' in England. And yes, in the 'woman dropped something' scenario, I'd just say "Excuse me, you dropped something". No form of address needed. Being called madam in that situation would seem quite odd and old-fashioned.

I think in this sort of situation the US ma’am (and sir) is great. Here in the U.K. we might find it excessively deferential but over there seems very natural and just comes across as “lady (or man) whose name I don’t know”.

I like the habit in some countries in Africa and the Middle East (and maybe elsewhere) of calling people you don’t know ‘sister’, ‘auntie’, ‘uncle’ etc. according to age and gender.
Several times I’ve been called ‘sister’ in Africa and the Middle East, but it’d probably be ‘granny’ now. 😄

My mother at about 80 was called ‘big mama’ (presumably he meant grandmother - she wasn’t fat!) by a chap in Egypt who was helping her into a boat. She was very amused.

It would have made me laugh and thinking what lovely polite lads.

I was raised to think it was rude to call a woman over a certain age Miss. Are you sure it's not that?

I meant to say “woman whose name I don’t know” I don’t know why I came over all 1950’s there!

Ah it's nice and they tried. They could well have that moment we've all had of 'what the hell did I say that for??' and use it to think of something other than person. As pp stated, I'd approve of comrade

Over here you'd just get 'OI,YOU!' so my standards may be lower.

I dislike miss in that situation (also, “Mr.”) it should “ma’am” and “sir”. However, even though I dislike “Miss” it was said in good faith and politely, so it wouldn’t bother me. And it’s infinitely preferable to “person” which isn’t a form of address.

I wouldn’t mind a nice non-gendered replacement, but can’t imagine one that wouldn’t be grating, given how these things have gone, lately. I would vote for “comrade” as suggested above but can’t see that gaining enough traction, sadly.

@BoomBoomsCousin

I dislike miss in that situation (also, “Mr.”) it should “ma’am” and “sir”. However, even though I dislike “Miss” it was said in good faith and politely, so it wouldn’t bother me. And it’s infinitely preferable to “person” which isn’t a form of address.

I wouldn’t mind a nice non-gendered replacement, but can’t imagine one that wouldn’t be grating, given how these things have gone, lately. I would vote for “comrade” as suggested above but can’t see that gaining enough traction, sadly.

Yeah the mass rape and genocide association of "comrade" is a bit off putting....

Around here if a woman dropped something and you wanted to get her attention you'd say "Excuse me love, you dropped something."

If a man did, it would be "Excuse me mate." We're northern, which apparently makes a difference.

Neither would be 100% appropriate for a child attracting an adult's attention though.

Generally, I'm not Miss and I object to it, but schoolkids aren't making an assumption about marital status by it - they call all the female teachers Miss regardless. Presumably these particular boys have been told not to assume marital status and are just realising that this leaves them with no suitable form of address for adult women outside the school environment.

I think it is sweet and being teenagers were worried about getting it wrong.

When I worked with people released from prison they always called me miss.