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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Can I ask for my money back?

38 replies

JimmyJabs · 21/09/2020 15:24

I need some outside perspective on whether I'm being massively entitled and unreasonable here - I don't think I am, but I've been getting myself wound up about it and I might have lost sight of what's normal.

I have a cleaner who, until lockdown, was coming in once a week. I only have a small flat but I have a painful joint condition and I can't really use my hands properly to do a decent job of cleaning by myself. The cleaner was reliable and thorough, so when she was unable to keep coming because of Covid, I carried on paying her every week. I really wanted her to stay in business so she could come back, and I felt bad for her losing her income overnight. I've been wfh full time and was saving money on travel anyway, so although I'm not especially well off, I could afford to do this.

My cleaner was supposed to be going back to work from the beginning of July, but what with one thing and another, in all that time she's only been once. She keeps having family emergencies, or else her car breaks down, or her childminder lets her down, or she gets held up at another job. She always has a good reason but at the same time, it always seems to be me that misses out - she is obviously still going out to other jobs. I understand that I'm not a very lucrative customer, since it's only a small flat and it takes less than two hours. I just thought that I was worth a bit of loyalty since I paid her even though I got nothing out of it for several months (I stopped that when she was meant to start work again).

Today she has failed to turn up and hasn't even messaged to let me know she wasn't coming, so I'm definitely going to ask her to give my keys back and find another cleaner. I'm just wondering, though, if I have any recourse to all the money I paid out over lockdown. I don't want to be vindictive and I don't really need it back, but I did it on the understanding that I was helping her stay in business and that she'd eventually be returning. I feel a bit upset and taken advantage of, if I'm being honest. WWYD?

OP posts:
Waveysnail · 21/09/2020 15:26

You chose to pay her during lockdown, you cant ask for the money back.

chocolatesaltyballs22 · 21/09/2020 15:30

I doubt you'll get your money back if you ask but I can see why you're annoyed. She is massively taking the piss. I would certainly stop paying her right now. If she didn't want to continue doing a small job like yours then she should have been up front about it and stopped taking your money.

I also paid my cleaner during lockdown and she came back as soon as she was able to. A week later she was ill and I paid her anyway, but she insisted on giving me that money back as I had never paid her 'sick pay' before.

AriettyHomily · 21/09/2020 15:31

You can't ask for the money back but you can sack her

CalmdownJanet · 21/09/2020 15:33

I don't think you can to be honest. Whatever about paying her during lockdown that's one thing but did you actually keep paying her when she came back in July but kept missing weeks? That was madness, nice, but completely mad, she now thinks you'll pay her whatever she does so is totally taking the piss

Original poster
JimmyJabs · 21/09/2020 15:39

No, I only paid her during lockdown, as it wasn't her fault that she couldn't come and it felt like the "right" thing to do. I didn't keep it up after the start of July.

Yes, I can see what people mean. I will definitely be sacking her - she obviously doesn't need my money, but I think she shouldn't have accepted it when I offered if she wasn't intending to come back. Anyway, lesson learned, I guess.

OP posts:
SantaClaritaDiet · 21/09/2020 15:41

I would ask for that exact advice on a LOCAL FB group. People are bound to ask for her name, or PM you asking for her name and it might help a few people to stay away from her.

She is a CF and doesn't deserve any sympathy.

tanstaafl · 21/09/2020 16:05

So you’ve paid her for March,April,May and June though she wasn’t coming due to lockdown?

I’m going against the flow here but of course you can ask for your money back.

You were paying on the promise that she would be coming back.
She hasn’t, so she should pay that back.

LindaEllen · 21/09/2020 16:19

You can't ask for your money back, but I would certainly consider trying to find a new cleaner. Why did you continue to pay her? Was she not eligible for furlough/self-employed grant?

billyt · 21/09/2020 16:26

She may have been eligible for furlough/SE grant but sounds like she would still have taken the money from OP.

Sunnydaysstillhere · 21/09/2020 16:27

Op I have PM you...

Imloosingmyshit · 21/09/2020 16:32

You’re going to have suck it up and kiss that money goodbye. I’m sorry she did this to you. Turns out you are a much nicer person than she is. Get another cleaner and maybe get a contract together to cover unfoseeablles... like maybe you would pay for two weeks but nothing more after that if Covid stops them coming or something??? Some people are really showing their true colours. Shame.

OchonAgusOchonO · 21/09/2020 16:38

I don't knew why posters are saying you can't ask for the money back. Of course you can. I would say the money was paid as a retainer. She hasn't lived up to her side of the bargain as she is constantly letting you down. Therefore, you want a refund of the money paid.

However, I think you have zero chace of getting the money back as presumably you don't have anything in writing to say what was expected in return for the payments. She is under no obligation to refund you as you chose to pay her.

Original poster
JimmyJabs · 21/09/2020 16:39

She applied for the SE grant and as far as I know, she got it towards the end of June. I don't think there was much overlap between that and her starting back at work. I don't know how it works really.

As to why I kept paying her, there were numerous threads on here in March/April about whether or not it was the right thing to do. Most people seemed to think it was. Perhaps I'm a soft touch, but I've learned my lesson and I won't be operating on such an informal basis again.

OP posts:
SonjaMorgan · 21/09/2020 16:52

It is a shame she hasn't prioritised you seeing as you were good enough to pay her when you didn't need to. There are plenty of people out of work and who have cleaning experience.

IfeellikeaJoan · 21/09/2020 16:55

Flowers You did a nice thing, it's really horrible when people don't appreciate it and throw it back in your face. I wish more people were like you OP.

Definitely ask for the money back, you probably won't get it but it's worth asking anyway.

I hope you find a good reliable cleaner who appreciates a good client!

Original poster
JimmyJabs · 30/09/2020 09:43

OK, well... I messaged her (after she didn't pick up when I called) saying that I didn't require her services any more and asking her to return my keys. I didn't ask for my money back in the end, as it seemed pointless and I thought it would make her less inclined to reply. I can see that she's seen the message, but that was almost 10 days ago and there's no sign of my keys. My message was polite but firm and, while of course I understand that she's probably not going to be very happy with me, she can't just keep them because she doesn't want to have to deal with me!
Any ideas what to do next? Obviously if she doesn't return the keys I'm going to have to change the locks but that's a lot of expense that I doubt I will be able to get back from her.

OP posts:
Whitney168 · 30/09/2020 09:48

I wonder how many people Mumsnet 'shamed' in to paying their cleaners over lockdown who are in the same position as you, OP? It always sounded deranged to me, with the exception that if I had a 'treasure' who had been coming to me for years I would definitely have considered it.

Anyway, as you say above, zero chance of your money back, and probably little chance of your keys back. If you are worried about this, just crack on and change the barrels (you don't need to change the whole locks, so it shouldn't be toooo expensive) and move on.

I know there are some great cleaners, but with experience of 20 odd years, the vast majority of them have zero loyalty no matter how well you treat them.

Original poster
JimmyJabs · 30/09/2020 10:03

True - she really was a good cleaner but within a day of my looking for another one, I'd already found a lady who lives two streets away from me and was able to start next week. I don't think there's anything particularly rare about decent, reliable cleaners! In future, I'll certainly only pay for work that's been completed and I'll be less hesitant to get rid if I keep being let down.

OP posts:
FullofSurprises · 30/09/2020 10:08

Random thought, has she lost your keys? Is that why she hasn't been turning up and making excuses? And now you've asked for them back she hasn't returned them?
I would be threatening some form of legal action tbh as they're your keys and she has access to your flat.

Zakana · 30/09/2020 10:32

Forget about the money you’ve paid out, you can but ask, but the keys are another situation altogether, they are your property, merely loaned to her in order to ensure she can carry out her work whilst at your property, which is not happening. It could be she has lost your keys and doesn’t want to admit it and tell you. In any event, the conversation has to be had. Unfortunately, in some people, it is human nature to accept and view your kindness as weakness, she is the ultimate CF.

TheTeenageYears · 30/09/2020 10:35

I'm not sure there's any legal way of getting her to give the key's back - you will have handed them over in good faith (in the same way you paid her in good faith) and presumably without asking her to sign to say she has them and must return if asked. I would probably send her one last message asking for them back and saying how disappointed you are that she was willing to accept payment during lockdown despite the fact that she was able to claim the SE payment and you did this fully expecting her to return to work as she had been doing pre Covid times. Say you understand things are tricky now with childcare and illness but you feel you were pushed to the bottom of the pile having done the right thing in paying her and you wonder how many of her other clients continued to pay. You were then forced to seek alternative help, as she knows mobility is an issue so couldn't indefinitely go on without appropriate cleaning help, particularly at the moment and that asking for the keys back and being ignored is just the icing on the cake and ultimately you are just really disappointed that someone would behave in this way.

Give it a week and if you still get nowhere I would probably change the lock barrel on at least one lock. You can't go on indefinitely knowing someone else has a key to your property. Do you have a friend or family member who might be able to change the lock barrel rather than a locksmith?

KarmaStar · 30/09/2020 10:41

She might be a good cleaner but she doesn't come across as a professional person op and I think you're better off without her.
Changing locks is very expensive,maybe an email saying unless your keys are returned within 48 hours you will be forced to have the locks changed and will invoice her for the cost.
Good luck with your new cleaner

PrivateD00r · 30/09/2020 11:00

I would imagine she is waiting on you making an arrangement - she probably expects you to collect the keys to be honest as there is no benefit to her - if that makes sense?

You sound lovely op and I am sorry you were treated so badly when you were trying to do the right thing.

user1471538283 · 30/09/2020 11:10

She needs to return the keys to you. I'd text her again and insist that she drops them through your door within a couple of days otherwise you will take it further

Whitney168 · 30/09/2020 11:12

Honestly, there is no point chasing the keys. Either she just can't be arsed to return them, or (obviously less likely LOL) she has evil intent with them.

If the latter, even if she did return them she'd have got a copy made before she did, so you'd be no better off.

I know it's frustrating (been there, now don't give any of them keys), but it's pointless.

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