“Gender fluid upbringing”

[CatsFantastic]

So I keep seeing headlines about celebrities who had “gender fluid” upbringings.

And when you read the article it turns out that they had perfectly normal upbringings and they were encouraged to play with whatever toys they wanted and wear what they like.

How the fuck is that now being framed as “gender fluid”??? It was a normal upbringing when I was a child!

My AIBU is this - it is very damaging to force children to adhere to sex stereotypes, why can’t we just let children be children ?!

YANBU - sex stereotypes are very damaging and children should be allowed to play with whatever toys you like and wear what they like.

YABU- sex stereotypes need to be adhered to, they give children guidance on how they should behave, how they should play and what they should wear.

there is a happy medium in everything. Both extremes are wrong.

@SantaClaritaDiet

there is a happy medium in everything. Both extremes are wrong.

Totally agree.

The issue isn’t as black and white as your voting options, so I’m not voting. However, an acquaintance of mine is bringing her daughter up gender fluid, and as far as I can see it involves making her wear really ugly clothes (lots of corduroy trousers and thick-knit jumpers) and refusing to buy her the doll she desperately wants.

Same with free range parenting. To me it sounds just like normal parenting and how everyone I know grew up.

If gender fluid upbringing means that boys are allowed to play with dolls and girls are allowed to wear blue then that sounds completely normal to me. I thought genrlder fluid upbringing meant something a bit different (ie. Completely gender neutral upbringing where child does not know their birth sex etc.)

I think children should be encouraged to play with any toys they like, without gender bias. And wear whatever colours they like etc.

However, IME when they get to about 4 they often become acutely aware of gender stereotypes (school or nursery of friends have an influence, as does society).

Most of my friends (me included) brought their toddlers up in a ‘gender neutral’ way but report the children wanted to conform to gender stereotypes once they reached 4 or 5. Eg their boys refused to wear pink or purple, girls didn’t want to play with the boys etc and suddenly got interested in dolls, wanted glittery fairy outfits like their friends!

I think some parents get carried away eg encourage their sons to have long hair (can’t cut his beautiful curls etc). But when the child wants his hair cut because of the tangles or he gets teased by peers, mums still discourage it! And I don’t agree with that. Children want to fit in.

My son who had a variety of "neutral" toys as a baby learnt how to turn any random item into a vehicle by the time he was a toddler

It's more unnecessary labelling of fairly average parenting, and attention seeking to boot.

@MyMushroomsInATimeSlip

My son who had a variety of "neutral" toys as a baby learnt how to turn any random item into a vehicle by the time he was a toddler

Yup. Or a gun.

If we got rid of stereotypes of the two sexes, everyone could just get on with dressing how they liked, doing the work they liked, or playing with the toys they liked. Clothes, work and toys are all 'gender neutral' because gender is just people projecting stereotypes onto themselves or others and seeing how they 'match up' to them. All children are 'gender neutral' whether they are boys or girls, because if they don't match the stereotypes it doesn't mean they have changed sex, it means the stereotypes don't apply.

When I was little (60s) there seemed to be more freedom and less rigid gender stereotyping than there is today. So I was encouraged to wear trousers / jeans for comfort and ease of movement, played with loads of lego (no pink stuff then) and science toys, had a cowgirl outfit, etc etc. I also had quite short hair most of my childhood and especially in my teens.

I had dolls as well but there didn't seem to be a big steer towards gendered toys.

No one called it 'gender fluid' or made a big deal of it. We were just children. I find it all overblown nonsense.

I let my kids play with anything age appropriate they wanted.
DD1 (9) likes owls, flamingos, books, camping, sewing, board games, Lego and puzzles. She wants to work with animals or children. She has recently rejected pastel colours in favour of dark colours.
DD2 (7) likes dinosaurs, adventures, craft, Lego, books and building dens in the garden. And glittery dresses. She wants to be an explorer or Paleontologist.

They know they are girls. They know it's means that, when older, they will be mother's not father's if they want children. They know that their biology doesn't have to limit them- men/women can have any hobby, aim for any career, dress how they like etc.

If you operate the toy using your genitals it is not for children. Otherwise, it is for all children. I found that on a meme once and I think it stands up.

I was given free choice of toys when I was a child - I had barbies and baby dolls but also lego, Thomas the tank engine and a scalextric. My brother, on the other hand, found one of my old baby dolls when he was a toddler and was told in no uncertain terms that he shouldn't be playing with it. Given the lack of caring responses shown by some of the husbands who are written about on mumsnet I can't help but think that family life would improve if we did away with this particular cultural norm.

What Auto said - I hate all this shit because it basically perpetuates out dated toxic gender based stereotypes- toys have no gender unless you assign one so stop

I think I would rather go back to my own upbringing in the 1940 era, when people didn't talk such crap and rubbish like gender fluid stuff. We had whatever toys were available, or what toys we made ourselves, and wore whatever clothes were available.

Some people don't much like oldies talking about the old days, but a better perceptive is gained by not having to have a mind, that is filled with all the rubbish ideas of gender related stuff.

YANBU. I was raised subconsciously "genderfluid" by parents who didn't (and still don't) conform to gender stereotypes before any of this was all the rage. Mother has short hair, father cooks and cleans and generally pulls his weight. Mother doesn't wear dresses/skirts at all. Father does pottery and painting etc.

TL/DR: My parents and grandparents let me play with whatever toys I wanted and didn't label any of it.

I am 100% female because my biology tells me so.

I was given free choice of toys when I was a child - I had barbies and baby dolls but also lego, Thomas the tank engine and a scalextric. My brother, on the other hand, found one of my old baby dolls when he was a toddler and was told in no uncertain terms that he shouldn't be playing with it. Given the lack of caring responses shown by some of the husbands who are written about on mumsnet I can't help but think that family life would improve if we did away with this particular cultural norm.

This has always been an issue even before the marketing to sell parents more crap along sex lines.

Most parents never had an issue with daughters playing with cars, trains or whatever, but if their son picks up a doll or wears a dress to play in it is wrong.

Regardless it isn't about being gender fluid it is allowing children to discover the world in the way they want.

Everything has to have a fancy name these days. Baby wearing, baby led weaning, attachment parenting and now gender fluid upbringing. It's the same things that parents have been doing for years but now it seems to be a competition for smug parents who want to tell everyone they are doing something different and are better than anyone else.

I did mostly finger foods with my now 14 year old because I was getting fed up of him flicking mashed banana at me. Baby led weaning wasn't a thing then. By the time I had my 7 year old all the popular mums at baby group were doing baby led weaning, swapping recipes and telling everyone who was doing purees that they were doing it wrong.

My 7 year old is disabled and couldn't eat finger foods for a long time. It became another thing that made my son different from other babies his age. It was like being at school again and being criticised for wearing the "wrong" kind of trousers.

It's just another expression for "full of shit"

I have an older brother and an older sister. I got whatever toys they were done with including my sister’s scalextric, my brother’s art materials and copious amounts of lego. I don’t recall them being colour coded by gender

What might be normal to could be completely abnormal for someone else.

Example, I got my DS a toy kitchen and a toy Dyson as he really loves imaginary play. I was half expecting older family members to think it an odd choice but no one batted an eye, the only comment I had was from an old friend with DC of her own who said "Isn't that more of a girls toy?".

I never expected it for someone my own age but I really shouldn't have been surprised, the marketing materials make it very clear who the intended audience is for each toy, why wouldn't most parents go along with it?

@MyMushroomsInATimeSlip

My son who had a variety of "neutral" toys as a baby learnt how to turn any random item into a vehicle by the time he was a toddler

Yeah, my daughter's done the same.

@LittlePearl

When I was little (60s) there seemed to be more freedom and less rigid gender stereotyping than there is today. So I was encouraged to wear trousers / jeans for comfort and ease of movement, played with loads of lego (no pink stuff then) and science toys, had a cowgirl outfit, etc etc. I also had quite short hair most of my childhood and especially in my teens.

I had dolls as well but there didn't seem to be a big steer towards gendered toys.

No one called it 'gender fluid' or made a big deal of it. We were just children. I find it all overblown nonsense.

Exactly this. I grew up in the same decade and pleased myself what I wore, played with or activities I chose. My own two children grew up in the same way. My youngest has turned out to be transgender. My eldest is non binary. I didn't encourage that in either of them. Both are happy and are leading settled, successful lives.

I work in retail and have sadly heard children told that girls can't have the blue Kinder Egg or boys can't have the Barbie magazine because they're "for girls" or "for boys".

Oh God yes I hate all this attention seeking labelling of parenting methods. Just get on with bringing your kid up and stop thinking you’re oh so modern/special/radical and deserving of a big fucking pat on the back for it.