“Gender fluid upbringing”

[CatsFantastic]

So I keep seeing headlines about celebrities who had “gender fluid” upbringings.

And when you read the article it turns out that they had perfectly normal upbringings and they were encouraged to play with whatever toys they wanted and wear what they like.

How the fuck is that now being framed as “gender fluid”??? It was a normal upbringing when I was a child!

My AIBU is this - it is very damaging to force children to adhere to sex stereotypes, why can’t we just let children be children ?!

YANBU - sex stereotypes are very damaging and children should be allowed to play with whatever toys you like and wear what they like.

YABU- sex stereotypes need to be adhered to, they give children guidance on how they should behave, how they should play and what they should wear.

sex stereotypes are very damaging and children should be allowed to play with whatever toys you like and wear what they like.

YANBU -I'm baffled why some posters are characterising this as 'extreme' .

No need for posturing, or insisting on 'gender neutral' pronouns or trying to hide the child's sex. Just a rejection of artificial constraining stereotypes.

I’ve been known to bollock my own older relatives, DH’s relatives/shop staff/ strangers for saying crap to my dc about this sort of thing.

It’s ridiculous. And seemingly endemic in some of the older population.

Mil didn’t speak to me for a month after I bought ds a doll and pram he wanted while we were out shopping.

She said I would make him gay.

I inspected the box and said it didn’t mention anything about a requirement to have a cock up the arse, and that if DS was gay I’d give no craps, and quite enjoy telling all her village friends all about it.

She came round sucking up after she realised DH wasn’t going to let her see dc behind my back.

@sqirrelfriends

What might be normal to could be completely abnormal for someone else.

Example, I got my DS a toy kitchen and a toy Dyson as he really loves imaginary play. I was half expecting older family members to think it an odd choice but no one batted an eye, the only comment I had was from an old friend with DC of her own who said "Isn't that more of a girls toy?".

I never expected it for someone my own age but I really shouldn't have been surprised, the marketing materials make it very clear who the intended audience is for each toy, why wouldn't most parents go along with it?

I hear the odd comment about boys having toy kitchens, then when challenged, they seem shocked when you point out the majority of chefs are male.

There's a real disconnect going on, it seems.

@DramaDromedary

The issue isn’t as black and white as your voting options, so I’m not voting. However, an acquaintance of mine is bringing her daughter up gender fluid, and as far as I can see it involves making her wear really ugly clothes (lots of corduroy trousers and thick-knit jumpers) and refusing to buy her the doll she desperately wants.

That is ridiculous if the child wants a toy, a doll yet the parents refuse to buy one beater they don’t want to create a stereotype? Mental!

Poor kid. Such a shame with all the bullshit ‘trendy parenting’!

Let kids be kids and play with what they want!

Attitudes like this is why my DD is getting teased for having a dinosaur lunch box and her male friend is getting teased for having a unicorn one. Thankfully mist if the children think both lunch boxes are cool. DD loves her dinosaur lunchbox.

I strongly disagree with parents who refuse to tell their children if they are a boy or a girl. Children have the right to know about their own bodies, biology and how things work. To me, that is where the labelling or whatever ends. Knowing they are a boy is just the same details as knowing they are a child, they are 5 years old, their name is Fred, etc. From what I've seen (granted it's limited) of extreme gender-fluid parenting is the parents actually strongly encouraging the children to choose the opposite of what might typically be expected. So, for example, not agreeing or being disappointed with a boy choosing a Batman suit but encouraging them to go for Elsa instead, rather than genuinely letting them choose.
Children should not be confused over their own bodies and need to know that they are male or female. They also need to know that they don't actually get to choose whether to use the male or female toilets/changing rooms.
Other than that, letting your children play with whatever age-appropriate toys or watch whatever appropriate TV show is entirely normal isn't it?

Yanbu . I think gender stereotyping for kids has got loads worse in my lifetime, mainly due to media and toys companies pushing these stereotypes, also because so much emphasis attached to finding out the sex of your child at 20 weeks gestation. Relatively people are wealthy these days and buy new things for their kids rather than just playing with or wearing whatever gets handed down.

You can be as neutral as you want until the size and strength differences show up.

@DramaDromedary

The issue isn’t as black and white as your voting options, so I’m not voting. However, an acquaintance of mine is bringing her daughter up gender fluid, and as far as I can see it involves making her wear really ugly clothes (lots of corduroy trousers and thick-knit jumpers) and refusing to buy her the doll she desperately wants.

Poor kid.

You'd think if the parents were going to bother to go to the trouble, they'd at least read up to see how to do it properly!!

What also makes me laugh is when people say they're challenging sex stereotypes by putting their girl in blue etc.....actually you're reinforcing sex stereotypes....blue is not just for boys

I totally agree that children should be able to play with whatever toys they want without gender stereotyping: I didn't even think that was up for debate these days....

That's not really the same as "gender fluid" parenting, though, which taken to its logical conclusion would be to not tell your kid what its biological sex was. Which in my view is extreme and probably counterproductive in many cases.

That's hardly in the same boat as letting your daughters play with tonka trucks or your boys play with unicorns though....

My youngest happily tucked his older brother's cars up in bed and kissed them goodnight, my eldest adores a long bath with plenty of nice-smelling stuff - and why shouldn't they?

Gender neutral parenting should mean being non-judgemental and not forcing your kids away from/towards certain toys because of their sex. Supporting your child in their interests without pushing stuff onto them.

Stopping boys having cars or girls having baby dolls is as bad as forcing boys to have cars, and girls to have baby dolls (speaking as a girl who resigned herself to getting dolls when what I wanted was planes and catapults, and a mother of boys who like all sorts of things)

Agree my son used to walk around with a buggy with his doll sat in it, he had lots of dolls like he had lots of cars. He wasn't gender fluid.

Agreed. This isn't true 'gender fluid'.

I am gender fluid. In my head, I'm largely male but I present as female. However, I'm completely straight. Simply not intrested even in experimenting. I'm very cool with that.

And I have my own flag and everything!

Let kids play with what they want, but don't pretend they're not a boy or a girl. Model good behaviours for them and monitor the media they consume for age-appropriateness, and most of them will turn out fine.

Focusing too much on "gender" might do harm, but we live in a gendered world, and that's part of a child's education, too. We owe it to them to teach them the truth about that, but at the level they're ready for, depending on their age and maturity.

Sound like my 1950s childhood to me.

I’m sick of this crap. Gender fluid upbringing my arse. It wasn’t a ‘thing’ when these’celebrities’ were being brought up. Total load of hairy bollocks. Kids can do whatever makes them happy. Just not while I’m eating my dinner.

I have four daughters.
They all like completely different things.
It's almost like they were four different people.
And not just one mass of pink and glitter.

I let mine play with whatever they wanted.
Son ran around all day pretending he was a teenage mutant ninja turtle and daughter loved trying on my heels.

I've just finished making my son some purple sparkly butterfly wings .... he's 3 and today has wanted to be a butterfly. Next week he will be back to lifts or trains or cats or dolls or Sylvianians ... he's 3.

He knows he's a boy and has a penis. I think pretending otherwise is more damaging tbh.

@Angelina82

Oh God yes I hate all this attention seeking labelling of parenting methods. Just get on with bringing your kid up and stop thinking you’re oh so modern/special/radical and deserving of a big fucking pat on the back for it.

Brilliant! Yip some just jump on any old band wagon and then want to tell everyone that this is how you do it! Well mate your kid is miserable maybe focus on them and not your own attention seeking ego

My children have access to a variety of toys, but the girls gravitate towards typically girly toys, and vise versa for the boys. They seem to really prefer certain toys, without any encouragement, which is interesting.

@DramaDromedary

The issue isn’t as black and white as your voting options, so I’m not voting. However, an acquaintance of mine is bringing her daughter up gender fluid, and as far as I can see it involves making her wear really ugly clothes (lots of corduroy trousers and thick-knit jumpers) and refusing to buy her the doll she desperately wants.

I know this probably sounds judgemental but I cUt help thinking poor child. a doll won't harm her

In the 70's corduroy trousers and red (where I grew up not in the UK) seem to be all the rage for girls and jeans (but I did not jeans myself even though my parents wore them)

Now it is unless your girl is in and much frills and pink and those weird hair bands on babies because girls have to be dressed up like a doll then you are doing something wrong

DS had toys of both genders (going with the stereotypical gender toy thing) because it we just bought what we felt he wanted to play with there was not conscious decision about him being a boy and have not to be gendered we just went with the flow of what he played with other places than home.

I do think modern society gives too much thought into kids and if you are not raising them with a parenting book or with a labels attached to them somewhere then the world would end

Are there any simple decisions parents make these days?

and blaming society does not make people run out and have sex reveal party so they can buy girl/boy before the child is even born, that is the parents who do that

@Twizbe

I've just finished making my son some purple sparkly butterfly wings .... he's 3 and today has wanted to be a butterfly. Next week he will be back to lifts or trains or cats or dolls or Sylvianians ... he's 3.

He knows he's a boy and has a penis. I think pretending otherwise is more damaging tbh.

I know and met little boys who when they put on a dress told everyone they are now a girl.

Putting on dresses while always fine with their mum has often worried their dad.

How about everyone simply ignores what celebrities have to say. Their opinions are no more valuable than the average person, and frequently less so.