Pride and Prejudice

[Blackdog19]

Just watching the awesome Colin Firth P&P adaptation. When I first watched it as a teenager, I thought Mrs Bennett was the annoying ridiculous one. It took reading something for me to realise that Mr Bennett was as bad in his own way saving no money and leaving Mrs Bennett with the possibility of 5 unmarried daughters and no home. If I had read the book in Jane Austen’s do you think we’d have more initial sympathy with Mrs Bennett?

I think Darcy buys him a commission in another unit, hence the move to Newcastle.
Where presumably much of their shady past can be left behind (until Lydia blabs)

I must buy another copy of the book
as mine is falling apart after hundreds of readings
the Netherfield books scene is the best IMHO

but my favourite JA heroine has to be Anne Elliot
none so good, so dependable as Anne

The JA books survive because they are set in their time but describe base human nature

and yes, Bride and Prejudice is just FAB
made with real love
and huge understanding and humour

@Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov

I prefer Mr Bennet in terms of sitting down for a coffee with, But he is truly as irresponsible as Mrs Bennet. He lets Lydia go for a quiet life and doesn't get involved in the Colin's courtship at all. What I can't understand is having met Lizzie how her mother thought she'd be able to foist Mr Collins on her. She'd have been better steering him towards Kitty or Mary. Mr Colin's would have been salvation for the Bennets after Mr Bennets death and he really doesn't seem to care.

Isn't it that Lizzie stated to be is second to Jane, both in age and beauty, and therefore as Mrs B tells Mr Collins that Jane is already spoken for, he looks next at Lizzie? I got the impression that Mary was too plain and Kitty too young to be considered as suitable? And Mrs B wants Lizzie to be the next one to be married off, she thinks there's more time to get the younger girls settled. Who knows, if Charlotte hadn't stepped in so quickly, Mrs B would have steered Mr C to one of the younger sisters!

Has anyone seen lost in austen? Loved it!

And remember Mr Collins doesn’t know he’s a figure of fun — puffed up with having Lady Catherine as his patron and knowing he’ll inherit Longbourn, he thinks he’s a fine catch! So he first fixed on Jane, eldest and prettiest, then Lizzy. Even had Charlotte not snapped him up, it’s not that likely someone of his conceit would keep going on down the family hierarchy.

Elizabeth is beautiful too. She is described by Bingley as very pretty, and Caroline says she has heard Elizabeth described as a great beauty. Its mostly Mrs Bennet, who has no time for lizzy and her wit, and Elizabeth herself that put Jane's looks very far above her own. Mr Collins would be expected to notice Jane first, it is her due as the eldest, so imo Jane is the prettiest, but Elizabeth is a very close second.

Charlotte is a much better match for Collins than any of the Bennet girls, marrying her is probably just about the smartest thing he ever did.

@saltyandfresh thanks for the recommendation earlier on the thread for The Other Bennett Sister, just finished it and loved it. It gives a whole new spin on Charlotte and Mr Collins.

I may not be completely up to date but certainly until very recently its been the case that dukedoms in the aristocracy go to a male heir not the eldest child

I’m a bit perplexed by this comment!

MsStillwell
Why would it perplex you that male heirs outrank their older sisters
t'was always thus
and the rule change brought in for the Cambridges only affects Royal succession, not Dukedom

Well, apart from the tautology, why single out one rank?

It was in response to a previous post.

Really sorry not to have a proper knowledge of the peerage or tautology!

I have loved reading this thread, have watched the 95 adaptation on Netflix and ordered the book, Longbourn as a result. (Tried Lost in Austen on YouTube but wasn’t keen).

I’m curious about Caroline Bingley. She isn’t young and she’s unmarried, yet seems very pleased with herself. This strikes me as odd as she seems to have neither great wealth nor class.

She's pretty rich.

@MsStillwell

I’m curious about Caroline Bingley. She isn’t young and she’s unmarried, yet seems very pleased with herself. This strikes me as odd as she seems to have neither great wealth nor class.

I don’t think we’re ever told how old Caroline Bingley is, though? Only that she has an air of ‘decided fashion’, has been educated at one of the best young ladies’ schools in the land (which maybe suggests she hasn’t left school more than few years ago?), has a fortune of £20,000 (Georgiana Darcy’s is £30,000 I think, so Caroline’s is pretty healthy), and has hopes of Darcy?

Ah, so she’s independently wealthy. That would mean that her behaviour makes sense.

She's overshooting with Darcy. Someone like Colonel Fitzwilliam would make sense for her. He's got all the pedigree and none of the money, she's vice versa.

Well, she inherited her money from Bingley senior, like her older sister and brother (who got the lion’s share, obv). But it’s a fair point, actually. Her sister hasn’t married all that well on the same fortune — Mr Hurst is a ‘man of more fashion than fortune‘, as well as being a boring card fiend — and Caroline must be aware that Darcy, even if he’s her brother’s best friend, is a bit of a stretch for a nouveau riche (nouvelle riche?) woman like her. (And from what Darcy says to Lizzy in his letter about Bingley-Jane, it’s fairly clear he would never have considered Caroline as a wife, so all her efforts were in vain.)

If you were trying to be sympathetic to her, you could say she’s a snob, but one who’s aware she’s very new money who has to tread very carefully to settle into ‘established gentry’ status, despite the family cash. Hence her determination not to let her brother make a socially-dodgy match and her horror at Mrs Bennet, Lydia and Kitty making a show of themselves.

It's interesting that she is very hard headed in that respect, but unable to be honest enough with herself to be realistic about her own matrimonial options. Because there must have been any number of second and third sons from prestigious old families, hell even first sons who had more in the way of pedigree than cash, who would've overlooked the taint of trade in return for the money. Maybe if either parent had been around (I assume they're both dead?) they might have directed her to aim at someone like that.

Darcy may be a big ask for Caroline but you can’t blame a girl for trying.

If I was a single twenty-something and my DB invited his best mate Eddy round to stay and it turned out to be Ed Sheeran, I don’t think I’d be able to resist a little light flirtation.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

It's interesting that she is very hard headed in that respect, but unable to be honest enough with herself to be realistic about her own matrimonial options. Because there must have been any number of second and third sons from prestigious old families, hell even first sons who had more in the way of pedigree than cash, who would've overlooked the taint of trade in return for the money. Maybe if either parent had been around (I assume they're both dead?) they might have directed her to aim at someone like that.

Your point about her aiming for someone like Colonel Fitzwilliam got methinking, @OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer. I was thinking about what social circles the Bingleys normally operated in, outside of Merton and environs. Obviously they visit Pemberley, but would Bingley have passed muster socially at Rosings?

I get that Darcy needs to have a different friend visiting with him there, because there needs to be someone to accidentally tell Lizzy Darcy was the cause of breaking up Jane and Bingley, but I did wonder whether Bingley was simply too ‘trade’-tainted to be presented to Lady Catherine? Is there any evidence he’s ever been there?

Colonel Fitzwilliam knows Bingley, though not well, by the sounds of it, but says he only knows his sisters ‘a little’.

Caroline Bingley would easily have been able to marry someone of Darcy's status but in need of her money, she's well educated and used to good society enough for people to overlook her trade connections. I'd say her social circle would be fairly broad: she sneers at Sir William Lucas's offers to present her at court and Mrs Bennet's saying they dined with 25 families and has clearly had a proper coming out season in London. Most importantly, when she's first introduced it says she and Louisa were in the habit of 'associating with people of rank', so Austen herself says that she mixed above her breeding.

She would have had friends from school with better connections, and she seems like the sort who would have assiduously kept up any useful contacts. She should have gone for the equivalent of a younger brother of Darcy. She could have got an Edmund Bertram or Colonel Fitzwilliam.

She doesn’t really seem to go for anyone. Even with Darcy she seems to want his approval rather than his proposal.

Caroline is young, rich, well educated and handsome. She didn't lack confidence either, so i imagine she would have set her sights very high. I read a sequel where she married Colonel Fitzwilliam, that didn't end well but overall i enjoyed the book very much.