To think that the current traffic restrictions are fucking ridiculous

[Gobelinoisawitchescat]

I live in SE London - and since these sodding barriers have gone up all over the place the roads are just completely blocked with traffic.

While I know someone is going to come on talking about climate change etc - am not sure how directing all the traffic to one location makes a damn bit of difference - the cars are still on the roads, they’re just concentrated in certain ones.

Am I missing something?

Yes, but your life is then set up to cope without a car. I wouldn’t have chosen to live where I do or chosen the jobs I’ve done if I didn’t have a car. If I didn’t have a car I’d have made lifestyle choices that were doable without one.

I do agree though that reducing car usage is a good idea where possible

Seems to be working ok in my bit of S London. The school streets that have been implemented locally all seems to be working ok from what I can see. But I don’t drive very often (only for journeys that are something silly like three buses and a long walk either end), so I may have just not noticed traffic problems.

SE London too.

I walk, cycles take public transport but my objection is based on class and economics.

I live on a busy A road in an average area. My nearest LTN encompasses the million pound houses in the posh postcode. So all the rat-runners are now waiting in traffic going past my flat (private) and the big council estate next door, pumping out dirty air. My road is now a fucking car par of polluting tin cans. Let the posh rich people breathe easier whilst the average, or poorer person breathes in the crappy air. It's so Victorian.

Same has happened in Oval too. Live in a big Georgian house? We'll make your road car free! Live in a tiny flat in a local authority block? No road safety or clean air for you!

Boils my piss.

*Car park

MadameBlobby the problem is that the life I have having using public transport has been majorly affected by these road closures. Bus journeys are taking much much longer because of the traffic jams. A journey the other day that should have been about 25 minutes took an hour and a half. What should be quick 'pop to the bank' type chores are now taking a whole morning to do rather than there and back in a hour or so. When I do a food shop I can only buy what I am able to transport home on the bus (I have a pull along trolley plus usually a large bag) so food shopping is usually every few days. It's now taking a major chunk out of my day to do this. People are being made late for work, children to school.

If the idea is to force people out of their cars there has to be an alternative. One that’s affordable and frequent. That might be the case if you live in a big city. However, you only need to travel 30 miles out of London to find an entirely different situation. If you live in a village, one old knackered bus each hour just isn’t going to cut it. The roads have blind bends and narrow. No cycle lanes. I certainly wouldn’t feel confident cycling in this scenario let alone allowing dc on the roads.

Whilst we need to tackle climate change and reduce our over reliance on cars, forcing people out of cars without an alternative just isn’t realistic.

I’d have made lifestyle choices that were doable without one

Living in london has the best source of public transport & cycling infrastructure in the country

How do people living on these roads get in and out?

@Lolaloveslemons

How do people living on these roads get in and out?

They’re allowed to drive through the barriers. However the Hither Green/Lee closures cover a big area, probably 20 roads plus so they still have to go out via the main roads. Interestingly the people in these zones have a much higher car ownership than those living outside them. I would have thought that a prerequisite for voting for one would be to get rid of your car.

I believe that most people especially where I live already only use their cars only for essential journeys. I only use mine when it’s more than half an hour to take kids (then half an hour back x2 to collect).

Lifestyle choice is one thing but do you really expect health and social care staff to walk / cycle all day to visits (at this time putting on and disposing of various sets of PPE) and carrying bulky equipment. This is not cost effective nor is sitting in traffic.

What about the old and disabled who cannot walk, cycle or take buses. These changes are affecting these people too.

I swear these schemes are designed by people who don't know the locality, traffic patterns, demographics.

It's not exactly the best time of year to be implementing, when the nights are drawing in - fewer people will cycle over the winter. Cycling is less attractive in heavy wind/rain, and your fingers hurt a lot when it's -5.

@ivykaty44

I’d have made lifestyle choices that were doable without one

Living in london has the best source of public transport & cycling infrastructure in the country

Not everyone can cycle. Trains only get you to certain places. A better idea would be to close bus roads to allow just buses, bikes and essential traffic (though still not feasible). Much more incentive to use buses if they are quicker than cars. Which are also stuck in gridlock. Unfortunately those pushing this forward don’t live in these roads. They live in the roads which have always been relatively free of traffic and just want to have private roads. Otherwise permit all roads since people are much less likely to make short journeys if they have to pay to park with the aim of one per household with incentives to switch to electric cars. Interestingly those pushing this forward also pushed for the already permitted areas (including themselves) to have 10 free visitor permits. Unbelievable!

@ivykaty44 not everyone can cycle or walk. My parents are in their late seventies with dodgy knees etc - what are the supposed to do?
Also with the gridlocked traffic the roads for busses are absolutely gridlocked - so it’s punishing those without a car just as much as those with.

ivykaty44 did you read them comment I wrote a few posts back replying to MadameBlobby ? Yes public transport in London is excellent. Yes it's actually reasonably priced. But it's no good if the bus is stuck in traffic jams and can't actually get anywhere. As I said - what should have been a 25 minutes bus journey the other day took an hour and a half and that's not the only loooooooong bus journey I have been stuck in. It's pretty much every bus journey. Everything is taking 3 times as long (if not more) to get anywhere.

No one can ever walk or cycle anywhere, I wonder how the 30% without cars get by

I don't drive. I walk or use buses. These schemes make that much harder unless I need only to walk in the newly traffic reduced areas- the vastly increased congestion on the surrounding roads vehicles are pushed onto totally messes with public transport running to time and makes walking on those roads far less safe and more unpleasant.

Follow Ella Roberta family foundation on Twitter.

A remarkable bereaved mother fighting for clean air, living in London.

I am amazed at her strength.

content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-understanding-our-diverse-communities-2019.pdf

52% of Londoners who have mobility issues don’t have a car and 17% use a bike to get around compared with 18 % of people without mobility issues

Which means that 48% do - and this is ALL of London. An area well served by tube is rather different to the outer reaches of south east London which aren’t.

My opinion will be unpopular but I love our 'mini Holland'. Cars forced away from rat runs to actually drive on the roads they are meant to have been on for years. It's great to see kids able to finally play out in the street etc.

I'm near you too @Gobelinoisawitchescat and am gutted by the division the LTN implementation has caused in the community. Physical and emotional division. The Lee Green LTN implementation has been a complete mess because it was so bitty, and that's even without the mess made of the 'consultation' before covid gave Lewisham the excuse to push everything through before any commonsense could be applied. We're outside the chosen zone and it feels a lot less safe for pedestrians here than it used to, never mind the additional fumes from the idling traffic.

I wish there had been a whole borough vision for reducing traffic, not this mess.

@SE13Mummy it is divisive. And it seems to me to benefit the more affluent roads funnily enough. Although the reality is that I doubt even those on them are happy when they literally cannot get anywhere without being stuck in traffic.

@KatherineJaneway the roads that are closed off here certainly aren’t suddenly pedestrianised.

[quote Gobelinoisawitchescat]@KatherineJaneway the roads that are closed off here certainly aren’t suddenly pedestrianised.[/quote]
I can only tell you my experience and its gone from lots of beeping as cars try and battle it out to pass each other on the rat run to having kids play football 🤷‍♀️

@KatherineJaneway sorry I didn’t mean it as that’s not your experience it just seems that it’s been applied so differently in different areas and it’s so frustrating here.

@KatherineJaneway

My opinion will be unpopular but I love our 'mini Holland'. Cars forced away from rat runs to actually drive on the roads they are meant to have been on for years. It's great to see kids able to finally play out in the street etc.

I wonder how the residents neighbouring your ‘little Holland’ are finding it? I doubt the children who live there will have the pleasure of playing in the street given the additional traffic and pollution?