Reporting dangerous dogs?

[LondonLassi]

Something has been on my mind for a few days after hearing about the poor 12 day old baby who died after being attacked by a dog.

My sister’s neighbour has a 16 year old son who is regularly in trouble with the police. I spend a lot of time there. The screaming and shouting that comes from next door is horrendous and the police are often called out to restrain him. He is not in school. Smokes weed all day. I’ve never seen his face because he wears a hoodie over a face covering (even pre-COVID) I’m just trying to paint a picture of the kind of troubled youth we’re dealing with here. If you make eye contact with him he will swear at you, call you names and threaten you. He is quite frankly a bit scary.

About a year ago they got two puppies from the same litter. They are fully grown now and they look like some sort of pit bull cross. Possibly pit bull/mastiff. They are huge. I’ll attach a pic of what I think they might be. When we sit out in the garden we can hear them next door fighting and growling, they barge my sisters fence to try to get to her small jack Russell terriers. They’ve had to repair the fence three times already after the dogs broke it.

This boy walks the dogs regularly. They are not muzzled. If we happen to leave the house at the same time the dogs go up on their hind legs and get very over excited. The boy has to pull them back to get them away. They try to break free to get to anyone walking near them if they’re out for a walk. Tonight we happened to be leaving as the boy was walking home. The dogs immediately started barking at us and were trying to run towards us and had to be restrained. We often hear people shouting when they walk by because of the dogs trying to get to them. It’s very scary when it happens because they are big and intimidating.

I am terrified of what would happen if these dogs managed to get loose. They have been raised by someone with a violent, anti social background. I can’t shake the image of them getting hold of a child. The boy has a little brother in the house, probably around 6 years old.

What would you do in this situation? I’m thinking of reporting them as potentially dangerous dogs. If IABU please tell me. It just seems like an awful attack waiting to happen.

@Dogsarebetterthanpeople

They are just crossbreeds, if I had a £1 for every idiot who claims their dog was a pitbull I’d be rich! Quite, every wannabe hard man claims his staffy/American bulldog/bull lurcher/mastiff x/staffy x is a pit bull..

Is there a specific term for these wannabe hardman types who express their dominance by getting 'those' breeds of dogs?🤔

@SBTLove exactly! I know, because two of my children are dyslexic. That’s exactly my point. I’m just trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that I’m a snob.

dogsarebetter it’s not a subjective test. My case (upthread) was taken to court. If my neighbour had not pleaded guilty having seen the evidence of neighbours we would have given evidence and been cross examined - there would then only have been a conviction of the mags were satisfied so they were sure. My case never had pts as a potential part of the sentence - the fear and threats was significant enlightenment to make other orders but not that - had that order been made the defendant would for sure have appealed as it would have been way beyond sentencing guidelines.
In effect it’s never just down to someone’s say so.

Enlightenment should read ‘enough’!

You are never going to win in here OP. Most dog owners I know are a little bit nuts ( speak as one myself) and will defend their breed to the hilt. Get uptight if you dare say dogs are potentially dangerous, which they all have the capacity to be. I would report if you are worried. I
Find pit bulls intimidating on the whole, that’s my prejudice as they are ugly creatures.

Actually a dog is considered dangerously out of control if it gives a person reasonable apprehension of injury

So a dog on a lead staring and plotting in someones direction might give someone the fear.. but it would not be reasonable.

Equally a dog on a lead, being held back but lunging and leaping around in a manner that could cause the handler to fall,the lead or collar to break etc, COULD cause someone to reasonably fear injury.

The key point is 'reasonable'.

OP, by all means contact the dog warden (if you can find them) and see if they are aware of these dogs and could offer the owners advice.

However it is unlikely anything will be done until a dog pulls a handler over or breaks its collar/lead/pulls lead out of someones hand, OR a someone decides the dogs do look like pitbulls in which case they could be seized and held pending official decision as to whether they are pitbulls by a DLO, and then court case to determine whether they are dangerous by their own behaviour or that of their owners. A lengthy process that is extremely costly to the tax payer and causes dogs real suffering unfortunately.

A dog dangerously out of control IS an offence and its down to perception of said person

Yes, but it's not as simple as "lunging, barking dog = dangerous offence". A dog that lunges and comes within millimetres of biting a baby or child, or that knocks someone over is absolutely dangerous, but a dog that lunges towards a squirrel, or because it's seen its owner on the other side of the road is a different story.

Lots of dogs bark and lunge out of fear. They do it, people move away, and they think that to get people out of their space, they need to bark and lunge. Most aggression in dogs (not all, but most) is a fear response and down to lack of socialisation, or because the dog has been attacked in the past and is pre-empting it happening again.

A big dog lunging while safely secured on a lead is unlikely to be considered dangerous unless it makes contact with someone, or comes very close to it.

Most dog owners I know are a little bit nuts ( speak as one myself) and will defend their breed to the hilt. Get uptight if you dare say dogs are potentially dangerous
^this
the dog is part of their identity and they get very defensive, it can do no wrong, like a mother defending a wayward son
the dog is always right

@Straven123

A 12 day old baby dies - but everyone is sure the dogs are safe, the owner is the problem

The owner is the problem even in that case. No one wise leaves a newborn with a dog. It's just common sense.

Lots of comments that behaviour isn’t necessarily aggressive. If it looks aggressive and I feel threatened by it, not sure if it matters that the dog is still a baby and is ‘only playing’ which is often the refrain of dog owners with dogs that aren’t under control. Luckily I’ve seen a reduction in this type of pet in our area in recent years.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable OP.

@Imworthit - I’m sure you mean no one should leave their newborn with a dog. A quick scroll on Pinterest will show many, many photos of dogs with tiny babies.

Yep, it doesn't matter what the dogs intentions are.

If you reasonably fear injury, ie big dog leaping around yelling, whether thats a happy enthusiastic greeting or an 'im gonna eat you' response... that could be an offence.

If you fear injury from a tiny 5KG yorkshire terrier bouncing and twirling and yapping on a lead... no matter how real your fear is, that wouldn't be reasonable and wouldn't be an offence. Even if the yorkie did want to bite you and rip off your legs.

If you fear injury from a tiny 5KG yorkshire terrier bouncing and twirling and yapping on a lead... no matter how real your fear is, that wouldn't be reasonable
I agree, a large powerful dog, or should I say a large powerful predator is inherently a risk
never mind dismissing it with the 'you're more likely to be attacked by a yorkie' deflection technique...it remains the case that a large powerful predator is inherently a risk.

it remains the case that a large powerful predator is inherently a risk

I don't think anyone is denying that large dogs can be dangerous in the wrong hands, but they're just saying that lunging isn't necessarily an aggressive or dangerous behaviour in itself.

lunging isn't necessarily an aggressive or dangerous behaviour
I don't think we should have to tolerate being lunged at by a large powerful predator in an urban environment:(
some breeds of dogs are not suitable as domestic pets, we need a proper legislative framework to deal with the problem dogs

I would report to the dog warden, OP.

@Heffalooomia

lunging isn't necessarily an aggressive or dangerous behaviour I don't think we should have to tolerate being lunged at by a large powerful predator in an urban environment:( some breeds of dogs are not suitable as domestic pets, we need a proper legislative framework to deal with the problem dogs

I agree we need proper legislation in place, but that doesn't change the fact that lunging isn't necessarily dangerous.

Dogs will lunge for lots of reasons - fear, excitement, prey drive, and yes, aggression too. But the vast, vast majority of dogs that display aggressive behaviours are doing so through fear. TBH I don't know what the answer is. I don't think you can go out and say "x breed is dangerous, ban it" because a lot of dog behaviour is down to how they're bred and raised.

I mean, you can get aggressive labradors, but I never see anyone suggest that all labs are dangerous and should be banned. And labradors are big, strong, powerful dogs that could do a lot damage in the wrong hands. The dogs that are currently on the UK's banned breed list are a tiny handful of the breeds out there. Being a banned breed doesn't necessarily make a dog dangerous, which is why you can own banned breeds here if they're of good temperament and you agree to certain restrictions.

some breeds of dogs are not suitable as domestic pets
Oh here we go.
Only teeny weeny super cuties allowed.
Nothing big, nothing ‘working’, nothing scary looking like bull breeds or German shepherds...

We’ll just conveniently skip over the fact that some of the teeny weenies like the jacks and Dachshunds and chihuahuas are predisposed to aggression according to some studies and aren’t known as ankle biters for nothing.

We’ll conveniently skip over the fact that young children have been killed by Yorkshire terriers, jack russells, Pomeranians etc before now and only focus on those big bad bull breeds.

@Dogsarebetterthanpeople

some breeds of dogs are not suitable as domestic pets Oh here we go. Only teeny weeny super cuties allowed. Nothing big, nothing ‘working’, nothing scary looking like bull breeds or German shepherds...

We’ll just conveniently skip over the fact that some of the teeny weenies like the jacks and Dachshunds and chihuahuas are predisposed to aggression according to some studies and aren’t known as ankle biters for nothing.

We’ll conveniently skip over the fact that young children have been killed by Yorkshire terriers, jack russells, Pomeranians etc before now and only focus on those big bad bull breeds.

as said, they get defensive.....

I have one of these dogs and it annoys me trash humans like your neighbour gets them. Because they are such lovely playful dogs it's just a shame

My dog is American bully x
He jumps at people because he wants a stroke and loves people, kids and cats
He lives with a 11 Yr old cat who Bullies him

I regualry get people picking up their dog because of him when all he wants to do is play, little dogs have bit him and he has down nothing, little dogs have also tried to hump him and he does nothing.

My partners mums yorkie also bullies him..

Some of you are deluded about dogs because some dickhead chavs got these dogs and underfed, and treat them bad doesn't mean they are all rough

Ps I only ever been bite by Jack Russells

Red flag, you said that the boys mother has said that they are part bred with a banned type.
I feel your fear.
I once had to report huge big dogs that were attempting to get into my garden over a wall. ( we have a small dog who spends time in the garden) I phoned the council and they dealt with it promptly. The dogs were off lead mastiffs and so scary and had run off on their teenage owner.
Speak to the council, keep an incident log .
If the house is association then possibly speak there.
Or just speak to the local police and voice your concerns. Better safe than sorry.

@Dogsarebetterthanpeople I’ve just spent 20 minutes scrolling through Wikipedia which lists every single dog bite death over the last 10 years. Unsurprisingly I did not find a single death by chihuahua or Pomeranian. It was mostly pit bull, pit bull, pit bull with the odd Rottweiler, mastiff, husky or Akita thrown into the mix. There is one daily mail article about a jack Russell tragically killing a baby and one about an unspecified terrier. I’m not sure where you are hearing all of these stories about these savage chihuahua killing machines (you’ve mentioned them specifically a few times) but I’d genuinely be interested to read about them. I don’t know how you could even begin to compare those breeds to the large powerful dogs I’m talking about. There is a big difference between an ankle biting menace and a beast that can rip a grown adult’s throat out.

Can I also just make myself very clear here.. some of you that have said you have pit bull type dogs sound like lovely, responsible dog owners. I don’t doubt for a second that the breeds that could be potentially dangerous can also be lovely pets when raised in the right environment by the right people. I have never said that all big dogs are dangerous killing machines. I’m talking about the potentially dangerous breeds that are being raised by the wrong people.

@Whitneylilyrose

My dog is American bully x He jumps at people because he wants a stroke and loves people, kids and cats He lives with a 11 Yr old cat who Bullies him

I regualry get people picking up their dog because of him when all he wants to do is play, little dogs have bit him and he has down nothing, little dogs have also tried to hump him and he does nothing.

My partners mums yorkie also bullies him..

Some of you are deluded about dogs because some dickhead chavs got these dogs and underfed, and treat them bad doesn't mean they are all rough

Ps I only ever been bite by Jack Russells

I can tell from your post there's nothing remotely 'chav' about you Whitney

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/mum-two-mauled-death-pack-12543080.amp
Dachshund