Reporting dangerous dogs?

[LondonLassi]

Something has been on my mind for a few days after hearing about the poor 12 day old baby who died after being attacked by a dog.

My sister’s neighbour has a 16 year old son who is regularly in trouble with the police. I spend a lot of time there. The screaming and shouting that comes from next door is horrendous and the police are often called out to restrain him. He is not in school. Smokes weed all day. I’ve never seen his face because he wears a hoodie over a face covering (even pre-COVID) I’m just trying to paint a picture of the kind of troubled youth we’re dealing with here. If you make eye contact with him he will swear at you, call you names and threaten you. He is quite frankly a bit scary.

About a year ago they got two puppies from the same litter. They are fully grown now and they look like some sort of pit bull cross. Possibly pit bull/mastiff. They are huge. I’ll attach a pic of what I think they might be. When we sit out in the garden we can hear them next door fighting and growling, they barge my sisters fence to try to get to her small jack Russell terriers. They’ve had to repair the fence three times already after the dogs broke it.

This boy walks the dogs regularly. They are not muzzled. If we happen to leave the house at the same time the dogs go up on their hind legs and get very over excited. The boy has to pull them back to get them away. They try to break free to get to anyone walking near them if they’re out for a walk. Tonight we happened to be leaving as the boy was walking home. The dogs immediately started barking at us and were trying to run towards us and had to be restrained. We often hear people shouting when they walk by because of the dogs trying to get to them. It’s very scary when it happens because they are big and intimidating.

I am terrified of what would happen if these dogs managed to get loose. They have been raised by someone with a violent, anti social background. I can’t shake the image of them getting hold of a child. The boy has a little brother in the house, probably around 6 years old.

What would you do in this situation? I’m thinking of reporting them as potentially dangerous dogs. If IABU please tell me. It just seems like an awful attack waiting to happen.

owned by a man that you can’t stand.

Correction. 2 big strong dogs owned by a violent, erratic, child ( that you can't stand for good reason )

At 1, my border collie would pull at the lead out of excitement, and also because she wanted to run up to everyone and get attention and petting.

Did you let her ? And laugh? Was she still doing at 2?

OK it's getting really tedious about the " they're just lunging out of excitement " thing.

It doesn't matter! NO ONE wants anybody's big muscular dog LUNGING at them fgs. These dogs do that ^regularly.

NO RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNER ALLOWs IT TO HAPPEN REPEATEDLY.
^

Seems like the Pomeranian incident was an extremely rare occurrence but well done for finding an example.

A 20 year old example but yeah well done for digging that out. The dachsies were a semi feral pack of 7, crossed with something bigger by the looks of the photo. Although bear in mind that dachsies were badger baiting dogs.

It's kind of like when discussing men raping and murdering women, be it strangers or DV. There will also be somebody bleating "but women do it tooooo" and "So you hate men then?? Should we just shoot all boys at birth then??"

There is nothing wrong with recognising differences in risk based on size, jaw strength and genetic differences in the drive to fight and kill, and also genetic differences in the drive to snap and let go (eg collie) or grab and hang on.

Temperament is largely due to nurture but a large element of it is nature; were it not so, field trial champions would not command higher fees at stud and the Koreans wouldn't have bothered choosing that star sniffer dog to clone, back in the day.

Note I am not saying that I agree with BSL- but there should be some recognition of the potential damage that can be done by large breeds with a history of being fighting/guarding breeds. I think the threshold of intervention should be lower for this type of dog than the rat-on-a-rope anklebiters, for whom the banning of the flexi lead would fix a lot of problems
Saying that the dog that killed the baby was golden and fluffy (rather than black or brindle and short coated, presumably) is irrelevant. If it was a chow × Akita- well then. Two big guarding type breeds (and Akitas were fighting dogs).

From wiki-
Owning a Chow-Chow can raise the cost of homeowners insurance because some companies consider them high-risk dogs.[14]In a study in theJournal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, Chow-Chow were responsible for 8 out of 238 fatalities related to dog bites from 1979 to 1998.[15]

@Dogsarebetterthanpeople I said this exact thing re social services and police yesterday but unsurprisingly OP ignored it

@silvertogold because how the hell am I supposed to know where the goddamn dogs were? In the garden, locked in the kitchen, upstairs? I didn’t know dogs were only allowed in the front room.

@powershowerforanhour 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

*You’ve said the dogs sound like they are fighting in the garden, that they have damaged the fence rushing against it and that they bark and lunge at people.

Whilst I can definitely see how that kind of behaviour could be frightening, it does not necessarily indicate aggression.*

Enough said.

Who wants to be frightened by strong, muscular , excitable dogs on a regular basis???!
^
Who wants their fence barged down by strong, muscular, excitable dogs ??!
^

@LondonLassi so the point stands if the dogs were aggressive and dangerous do you not think that at some point social services, the police/other support organisations would've picked this up

@silvertogold

If the dogs are strong and muscular and excitable and badly controlled ?

And their child owner is immature and erratic with a history of violence?

And next door?

Would you be cool with that?

@silvertogold You mean like how they picked up all the dangerous dogs that killed people in the past? Before they killed I mean? What a stupid argument.

@LondonLassi with police, social and other services so heavily involved and due to the nature of what they are dealing with if they had any concerns regarding these dogs being aggressive they would've been removed.
@sunglassesonthetable OP hasn't started a thread on if it would be annoying she has said should she report them for being dangerous.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread as it's a bit long but yes I think you should report. No way would I want to live next door to that situation. These dogs may be lovely if properly trained but they have the ability to be incredibly dangerous if not.

just asking @silvertogold ?

Big, strong badly trained dogs lunging at you in excitement, repeatedly whilst the 16 year owner, with a history of violence, looks on and laughs?

Powerful, young dogs barking, barging and breaking your fence. ( Probably in excitement ) Weed smoking, erratic owner doesn't care?

I doubt social services or the police would remove them for that would they?

But you'd be fine with it?

the point stands if the dogs were aggressive and dangerous do you not think that at some point social services, the police/other support organisations would've picked this up

So my point stands given that given that the SS or Police have not picked up these dogs, and you knew that

how would you feel if it was you?

The pet industry is huge, it specifically focuses its advertising to make pet owners feel as if their animals are equivalent to children
The pet industry has huge lobbying power and it's only interest is maintaining and increasing profits, group seeking to limit and control the nuisance and damage caused by dogs have far less power ☹️

@silvertogold

How is @LondonLassi to know if the dogs were even in the property, locked in another room or outside when the police or SS attended?

If the mother disclosed to a social worker that she was scared of the dogs or had concerns they were a banned breed then this would be looked into. If the dogs are locked in a different room and they have never seen any behaviour to cause concern then why would they have done anything? Same goes for when the police have visited.

So my point stands given that given that the SS or Police have not picked up these dogs, and you knew that
how would you feel if it was you?
Personally, I would take note of all the comments that say the behaviour could be excitement, not aggression, and assume that that, coupled with the fact the police do not believe the dogs to be dangerous, as evidence that they are in fact, despite how they appear, not dangerous..

I would be annoyed that the family responsible hadn’t taken responsibility for the fence, and I’d be annoyed that they were being allowed to bark and lunge but ultimately, grit my teeth, secure the fence myself and get on with my life in the knowledge that the relevant authorities do not believe the dogs to pose a risk.

No one has disputed that the dogs are badly behaved and that the bad behaviour comes across as very threatening.

But rude behaviour like barking and jumping at people does not automatically make a dog dangerous.

Ultimately, if neither the police or social services believe the dogs to be dangerous,
All you can do is accept they are badly behaved but not aggressive and get on with your life.

No matter how much certain posters may want it to be true the fact is, an unpleasant owner does not automatically make a dangerous dog and bad behaviour as a result of poor training does not automatically mean the dog is dangerous and being a bull breed 😱 does not automatically mean the dog is dangerous.

Tbh, when the thread first started I had sympathy.
I certainly don’t think barking and lunging at people is acceptable behaviour and I can certainly see how anyone could find that behaviour frightening.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to report a dog behaving in a way in which you interpret as aggressive, like barking and lunging, as I have said earlier.

What I have found upsetting is that as the thread has progressed, it’s become crystal clear that the issue isn’t actually two large dogs behaving in a way which is frightening the OP.

The issue is that the OP hates her neighbour (not entirely surprising granted) and believes that bull breed dogs, pit bull type especially, are savages that are genetically programmed to be dangerous (as said more than once by the OP in this thread) and shouldn’t be kept as pets as they can never be trusted.

The OP will never be satisfied until the dogs are taken off the boy and PTS.
Unfortunately for OP, if they were of ‘type’ they would almost certainly have been seized and PTS by now.
Ditto, if they truly posed a safety risk, the police and social services would have seized them by now.

if they truly posed a safety risk, the police and social services would have seized them by now
Yes, that's why there are never any dog attacks in the UK, all dangerous dogs are proactively seized by the authorities.

@Dogsarebetterthanpeople

coupled with the fact the police do not believe the dogs to be dangerous, as evidence that they are in fact, despite how they appear, not dangerous..

We don’t even know if the police know they exist? How can you just make that assumption and state it as fact?

Are you just going to keep skimming over the fact that I have said REPEATEDLY that I’m sure these dogs can make lovely pets in the right hands. Ffs. These dogs are clearly not in the right hands. I’m sorry if I’d prefer to err on the side of caution and rather have the situation evaluated to avoid a tragedy.

*Ultimately, if neither the police or social services believe the dogs to be dangerous,
All you can do is accept they are badly behaved but not aggressive and get on with your life.
*
Agree. But truly no one knows that. Only assumed that by default. It is not a given.

So since they are powerful dogs showing poor behaviour which could be either excitement or aggression they need to be reported. So OP's mind can be put at rest.

The OP will never be satisfied until the dogs are taken off the boy and PTS.

Tbh I think you've made a leap there. I don't think OP will be satisfied until she and her sister feel safe.

UnderstandBly this is also fuelled by the owner's mother not feeling safe around the dogs. And this makes OP worry for the 5 year old living in the house.

Tbh I think it would be irresponsible not to report them.

I

@Dogsarebetterthanpeople Next time you read a story about a newborn being ripped apart like a chew toy I hope you remember this thread. As your username suggests, maybe you don’t value human life as much as the rest of us. I’d rather take my chances and be proven wrong than blindly defend a potentially dangerous animal that I’ve never even laid eyes on. I don’t really need your approval to know that I am doing the right thing. You say they may just be excitable and want attention. They may equally be dangerous and out of control. That’s enough for me.

We don’t even know if the police know they exist? How can you just make that assumption and state it as fact?
How can they not?

If they bark and lunge at people on lead and spend their time in the garden barking and growling and throwing themselves at the fence, then they must surely bark up a storm when people visit the house?

Surely whenever police or social or whatever have entered the house or even just stayed on the lawn when it’s all been kicking off the dogs must surely have been barking..?

If they are as bad as you say and everyone is scared of them, and it’s been going on I assume at least a year and a half if the dogs are two, why has no one reported them before now?

Presumably they either aren’t as bad as you say or if they are, they’ve already been reported and nothing has been done because the police don’t them to be dangerous?

Are you just going to keep skimming over the fact that I have said REPEATEDLY that I’m sure these dogs can make lovely pets in the right hands
You’ve also REPEATEDLY said aggressive behaviour to people is in these dogs DNA and can’t be bred out, you’ve posted lots of American statistics stating how savage they are and tried to suggest Battersea said the same.

Presumably they either aren’t as bad as you say or if they are, they’ve already been reported and nothing has been done because the police don’t them to be dangerous?

Obviously the dangerous word here is Presumably- if OP's mind is to be put at rest and she has to "grit her teeth and get on with it" she needs to report the dogs and find out.

Next time you read a story about a newborn being ripped apart like a chew toy I hope you remember this thread
Or maybe I’ll instead consider the bigger picture like bad breeding practices, poor socialisation, possible neglect/abuse etc rather than a very short sighted ‘bull breeds are the devil’

As your username suggests, maybe you don’t value human life as much as the rest of us
LOL okay 😂

I don’t really need your approval to know that I am doing the right thing
I never said don’t report them.
In fact, I said there is nothing wrong with reporting if you feel they may harm you.

My issue is not that you are scared of two big, badly behaved dogs.
My issue is that you believe bull breeds are the devil, that they are savage beasts, should all be PTS because it’s their DNA to be vicious etc and don’t try and claim you don’t, you’ve made it crystal clear.
I also take offence to the insinuation on this thread, not just by you, that only a certain type of person has these dogs.
It’s just a really horrid, judgemental, vile thread all around.

You say they may just be excitable and want attention. They may equally be dangerous and out of control
Crack on and report them.
I never said you shouldn’t.
Just try not to be too disappointed when nothing happens and they don’t get PTS because we all know if they really were that dangerous, with the level of involvement you’ve described, they would have been seized already.

@Dogsarebetterthanpeople refer to my last post. I’m never going to agree with you. Clearly the majority of people on this thread don’t either.