To think this just can't work - schools

[beachbodhi]

I'm sure this will have already been discussed but I really don't see how we can carry on like this through autumn / winter . How are people going to get by?
Little one got sent home yesterday , no temp -just started with a cough and runny nose in the afternoon. We've all become a bit snotty so looking like the usual cold we all end up with. We all have to isolate now for 14 days or until we can get tested. There are no tests available anywhere ! It's cocking things up big time as I'm really needed at work right now-this could comprise my position , that I'm lucky to still have all things considered. My friends are in the same boat - all off work and school for last 7days , kids recovered but can't go back as no tests . Fml my kids pick everything up so the next 4 months are going to be a nightmare! Shambles !
'I will never financially recover from this'

We have been sent information by the school saying a continuous cough is for coughing at least an hour consistently. We have all had coughs here and there but didn’t think to get tested. If the school has sent you for a test and she’s not coughing or hasn’t been coughing for an hour consistently I would be going back and questioning it.

It’s not the official guidance on a cough, though. The official guidance on a cough says ‘for more than an hour or 3 episodes of coughing in 24 hours’.

It’s as woolly as fuck, basically - and children present with mild symptoms so it’s entirely possible an occasional, mild cough (but more than 3 times over 24 hours) is actually COVID-19. There's absolutely no way for any parent or even any health professional to definitively diagnose a cold from covid just on looking at a kid.

So if your school is telling you different, they’re taking a risk.

Not an unreasonable one, if most people are healthy, and we all appreciate why they’re being pragmatic. But if they miss a case it could really impact any vulnerable families. I don’t blame schools for not taking the risk.

It’s extremely stressful. Lockdown was stressful, but this feels like we’re all in a giant game of chicken.

Here in Ireland if you have symptoms you call your gp and tell them and then based on your symptoms they send you for testing or not.

Sadly, here in the UK, even before Covid, it was nigh-on impossible to get a GP consultation unless you were at death's door, hence the pressure on most hospital A&E departments as people were forced to turn up there because they couldn't get to see a GP.

If you dared to phone up to consult about whether you might have Covid symptoms you would doubtless be roundly scolded by the receptionist (after you had waited 30 minutes on the phone to even get to speak to them) and directed to the NHS 111 website.

@MarjorytheTrashHeap the consultations are done on the phone mostly. You call the gp, tell the receptionist you/someone has symptoms, they put you on a call back list and the gp calls you back! you list your symptoms and when/how they started etc and then they advise you from there.

@Rosebel I don't know what I want them to do , I don't have any answers I just can't see how this can go on with so much disruption for everyone -so many families already affected and they've only been back a week and a half ! And on a personal note - for my kids (esp Sn ds) and with our jobs. Maybe we should all go back into lock down then 🤷‍♀️

Sorry, nowaitaminute, I should have been clear, it's extremely difficult to even get a phone consultation with a GP here. Receptionists triage everything and at the mention of Covid symptoms you'd just be told to go online. You put your symptoms in on the 111 website and it tells you if you should go for a test, but basically if you have a cough it will tell you to get tested so lacks the nuance of speaking to an actual healthcare professional.

@MarjorytheTrashHeap that sounds awful

This is an impossible time for schools and heads are under unbearable pressure. I've been accused of all sorts and shouted at by parents. I'm following (very woolly and dubious) government guidelines and doing my best to keep my staff and students safe yet I'm personally attacked. I haven't had a break since February and don't sleep at night. We are doing our best to keep schools open and keep everyone safe despite the 2 being incompatible, all with smiles on our faces so the staff and kids can't see how close to breaking we are. Please be patient and please be kind.

@Rosebel

So what do you want them to do? Shut the schools again? Or be cautious when children display Covid signs? I know it's rubbish. My eldest is off at the moment but not with Covid symptoms luckily. If you don't want them sending children who could be ill home then we'll have to go back to children not going to school at all.

I think there isn't an answer to "what do you want them to do". Even if testing was quick, I don't think the current approaches around trying to prevent Covid in the schools will be workable. Too many children will miss too much time, the classes will be all over the place. Too many teachers will miss too much time. Parents won't be able to manage the staying home - many will end up losing money that they have no room to lose, there will be some that lose their jobs, or, what I think will become increasingly the case, parents will leave kids home alone or make private arrangements for someone to watch them.

If they do part time schooling the problem is the same in terms of parents and work.

I think in a way schools are a lost cause. Covid will be passed around there. You can increase handwashing and try to maintain a certain amount of social distancing, but I'm not convinced there is a lot more to be done, realistically.

People assume there is AN ANSWER - if only we get it right. But maybe there isn't.

@Wineiscooling

Our bubble has burst. Youngest has to isolate for 14 days due to positive in his bubble. I was very keen to send mine to school but now I'm thinking what's the point? Can't spend all winter isolating one or the other. However, can't home school due to work (husband works from home since lockdown but is very busy and I'm a key worker) also, dont want fines if we don't go in. It feels like we could isolate for 2 weeks as advised, send him back then another positive case in one of them sends us back into isolation. It's all very well saying only the child needs to isolate, the rest of family carry on as normal but we can't just abandon that child whilst we go on as normal. There must be a better way.

I thought that if the child was isolating because their bubble burst, their whole family had to isolate too?

Before anyone moans about the 'little cough' please consider that school staff are already working with no protection whatsoever. We cannot take the risk of having coughing children in school unless they've tested negative (I know it's a pita, we were out for half of last week ourselves). If you don't want staff to declare that enough is enough and to down tools, please don't second guess the cause of your DC's cough.

I think people are confusing an episode of coughing and a single cough. Coughing 3 times in 24 hours is not a symptom. Having a coughing episode is multiple coughs at one time. Then this happening 3 times over 24 hours.

Lots of tests are people being forced to isolate who need to get back to work. Teachers for example. 25000 were estimated to be self isolating and waiting for a test. It is lack of staff that will ultimately shut the school.

Some schools may be stricter than others due to PHE advice differing. I teach in an area with rising cases and the briefing from PHE yesterday was that we now need to be absolutely rigid with applying the guidance around children not being in school with a continuous cough, unless there is a known medical reason for their cough. It doesn’t matter whether it looks like it’s just a cold or not.

We are saving our tests for staff or for children in exceptional circumstances. We can’t afford to have teachers off for two weeks as they can’t get a test as we will struggle to cover them.

This. We need schools to be open full time. There was always going to be a rush for testing when the kids are back at school and experiencing the usual back to school sickness symptoms. It’s not an ideal situation but better than them nor being back at all.

This, sorry!

This is a constant worry of mine. My DD has just started school and she is loving it. She has had mild asthma symptoms before and was given an inhaler but it's hard to diagnose when they are so little. These symptoms started again in August and she was coughing loads. So we all got a test and we were all fine, the cough continued for 3 weeks so I called the doctor who gave her an inhaler and some antibiotics as she wasnt sure what was going on. Antibiotics did nothing and the cough didnt change, this brought us to 5 days before she started school. So I panicked and felt she needed another test as her last one was almost 4 weeks ago! No tests anywhere, luckily I ordered a home test kit in lock down after having a panic but we never used it. We posted it and I got her results the evening before she started. She is now on a brown inhaler and its helped her so much. But she still coughs occasionally and clears her throat. It makes me cringe when we are out because I have been so safe with her but she needs to go to school and run around outside. She has always been like this and asthma runs in the family and it's so mild so I'm really not concerned. I just know when winter comes around it's going to be so stressful for her and me. She will be catching coughs all the time and missing so much. Sorry to get political but the government have royally messed up this testing system. I get the increase in demand but surely you would of been prepared for that? Surely its obvious this was going to happen??? Peoples jobs are at risk and children that have already lost so much time are losing more. It's sad. I have 0 faith and trust in this government moving into autumn/winter.

Fgs.

*I think there isn't an answer to "what do you want them to do". Even if testing was quick, I don't think the current approaches around trying to prevent Covid in the schools will be workable. Too many children will miss too much time, the classes will be all over the place. Too many teachers will miss too much time.
Parents won't be able to manage the staying home - many will end up losing money that they have no room to lose, there will be some that lose their jobs, or, what I think will become increasingly the case, parents will leave kids home alone or make private arrangements for someone to watch them.

If they do part time schooling the problem is the same in terms of parents and work.

I think in a way schools are a lost cause. Covid will be passed around there. You can increase handwashing and try to maintain a certain amount of social distancing, but I'm not convinced there is a lot more to be done, realistically.

People assume there is AN ANSWER - if only we get it right. But maybe there isn't.*

So @LuaDipa, you seem to be saying that the only acceptable model is for schools to be open full time, regardless of the fact that Covid is spreading and there simply won't be enough adults to staff it. It isn't a solution. We know it's not going to work even if you demand it.

Where I work they are only sending home those with temperatures.

I don't think there is an answer to this. It's just a mess and going to cause people financial hardship and maybe even job losses.

What is the other option? If there aren’t enough adults to staff it, the school closes for two weeks, as it would if the children had symptoms, and then reopens again when able, the same as any other place of work. I fully expect to have my kids at home for periods over the next few months and longer, but where able kids need to be at school.

I am very fortunate in that we are still at wfh and can be flexible but others aren’t. Kids need to be at school so parents can work.

It feels unsustainable to me. The problem is that many school staff are also parents. So if they get a call to collect their child then they are self isolating too. This would not be such an issue if tests were readily available, but for some they are not.
I'm a teacher and am dreading the inevitable. We were all so happy to be back and getting on with our normal school life, but its quickly unravelling.

I’m in primary. We’re only sending children home if they have a persistent cough and/or temp over 37.8. They have been tested and back at school. There are children with vulnerable parents and siblings and we have vulnerable teachers too so we have to take these decisions.

Well we are on day 5, still can't get a test, and no point now, so off until the end of next week

If there is such a poor testing structure and ds is as ill as he was last Winter, we would be better not sending him in...the constant back to school anxiety for him, his yr9 and 10 sisters missing school and dh losing wages...plus the risk to him if he does contract covid, it's just not doable.

I worry about the long term effect on women careers too. Because far more often than not, it is women who are having to drop everything and work from home. Employers are already wary of taking on women of child bearing age (however illegal this may be). I cannot imagine this will improve over the next few months/couple of years!

DS2 has a cold but his Head has been pretty sensible about allowing them in with sniffles. I was told that if DS developed a cough he'd have to stay home for ten days or until tested. I pointed out that he'd likely have been in school spreading whatever it was for a week or more by then anyway! But the Head is more worried about lack of education if the kids have to take off ten days every few weeks or more for minor colds. Of course, testing would resolve all of those issues...

The problem is the guidance. Our school is only sending children home with a persistent cough - we have to monitor how many times in 1 hour or the high temperature. Children go home and are asked to call 111 or 119 who have been giving out different advice!

One child had a persistent cough last week but it cleared up within 2 days - no test and she was told to come back. No test required according to 119. Others have been told to isolate for 14 days until a test.

I am a teacher and almost my whole class (and me) have colds. A few have coughs but nothing major and not persistent.

One of mine was off 2 days this week. sore throat (off) back at school on the advice of the school then diarrhoea which meant he could not go in anyway.

School are doing temperature checks before every class and if there is a spike they go home.

Problem is- now thr government is saying 'don't cofuse a cold with the symptoms' - but for 6 months we have all been told abot the symptoms that are remarkably similar to a cold and told to immediately self isolate. Now without testing the responsibility for making judgment calls is ours. Now, I am fine witht hat- but there are 60 million odd people in this country and so 60 million people potentailly making different judgment calls. But it will all be our fault somehow when numbers explode.