To refuse this request from employer

[StrongerSingle]

Not posted for aaages ... but needed some perspective and advice on this.

I have the most awful employers and quite honestly, am very happy working from home so that I do not have to see them. For the record, my job entails dealing with financial reporting (mainly Excel) and all the company files are in the cloud so accessible from anywhere.

At the beginning of lockdown, they were their usual unorganised muppets and we all started working from home without any IT equipment being supplied. I have a decent laptop and large monitor of my own so just carried on working using my equipment. They have never offered to supply anything .. just assuming we will all use our own stuff.

Today I get a message saying they want to install time-logging software on MY laptop to see what I am doing. I must admit I haven't seen it yet and do not know what info it will be sending them ... but AIBU to say no?

& pay for your internet too

@Upstartcrones

TenDays

Your husband isn't actually correct. The employer doesn't need to buy a lot of hardware to support wfh. All the employer needs to do is setup a VDI system and you can establish a secure connection via a private cloud link. The BYOD model is perfectly sound if you layer the right software over it, such as a citrix based solution.

Buying equipment for every employee is costly, not always necessary and a very outdated model. There are much more effective ways to control operational costs.

Yes by making the suckers (employees) provide, computers, printers, office furniture. A great idea for the company.

Looking ahead to a winter working from home the days of setting the heating to be off all day will be a thing of the past. So expect higher energy bills just to keep warm at home.

How can you be partly furloughed? I thought the point of furlough was the gov’t paid so the business didn’t have to while there was no work for you to do?

Sorry... but absolutely tell them no when you speak to them later.

Either install the software or ask for a work laptop. If they can’t provide you with a work laptop, then back into the office

StrongerSingle, so go to her anyway and say that you'll be speaking to/have spoken to ACAS too. Maybe even invoke a lawyer who you may or may not have been in touch with already.

"How can you be partly furloughed? I thought the point of furlough was the gov’t paid so the business didn’t have to while there was no work for you to do?"

Part-time furlough has been allowed since 1st July.

Op - why not speak to ACAS and then speak to your employer?

move businesses can use a flexible furlough system since beginning of July.

So a fulltime person can work a day a week (or any hours up to normal) and the company can claim furlough for the hours where no work is available (in theory)

For the record, my job entails dealing with financial reporting (mainly Excel) and all the company files are in the cloud so accessible from anywhere.

Presumably you need a login though. Are you storing any company info on your personal hard drive?

Huge issues if you are - eg if your personal laptop got nicked.

Or what if it broke, or got too old to cope with the latest software, or you don't have the best virus protection? Or if someone else in your household can access confidential info.

Using our own pc to work from is a sackable offence where I work.

Good grief, you're using your own laptop for work?

That alone is outrageous. The fact they want to install work software on to it.....tell 'em to take a hike, ffs. No danger would I do either of those things. Are the financial spreadsheets etc you're dealing with for the business you work for, or for their clients? If they're client information I'd be concerned at a breach of security and client confidentiality. If you can access a businesses private date on your own, possibly unsecured, system, where's their confidentiality? Crikey, I'd go ballistic if I was a client and found that out.

The standard guidance for IT is they can’t put their software on your own machine, any more than they could say your home toilet should be made available for all staff.

It is also worth noting that this type of software is notoriously inaccurate. It can’t distinguish if you are working or posting on mumsnet. You could attach your mouse anything that moves and it will show you are working.

Presumably you need a login though.

You'd hope so ...

Are you storing any company info on your personal hard drive?

Well even if not explicitly, the action of caching will leave something behind. And it's an evens bet that the HDD isn't encrypted anyway.

Using our own pc to work from is a sackable offence where I work.

Even 10 years ago it wasn't possible when I was an IT manager. I made damn sure of it.

I have the most awful employers

At the beginning of lockdown, they were their usual unorganised muppets

they want to install time-logging software

These three tend to go together. Bad managers are bad employers and look for magic solutions to their management competence issues.

Someone has probably flogged them a licence for the software as a superficially easy way of "managing" people.

Just say no. You could ask them to give details of their compliance procedures, patching procedures etc but for now I'd just decline until they provide the kit, at which point you want details of what is being monitored inside your home and how that data will be used. (They should have a poliicy on this, obviously they won't).

@Twizbe

You're not being unreasonable. If they want the software, they provide the hardware.

Spot on

@justasking111 I'm not claiming it's good or bad, simply that there is the technology to do it in a more effective way. It's been common practice globally for at least the last 5 years and it is the way of the future as it is cheaper for the employer.

I can only speak for myself on this, but for me there are huge benefits for wfh though, no commuting costs, flexibility for childcare, no expensive lunches or snacks (costas). I've been wfh for a very long time and have made significant savings. I use my own equipment and heating etc. But it's not for everyone. For me it's allowed me to progress rapidly in my career and minimised the impact of having young kids. Appreciate its not the same for everyone but I think the genie is well and truly out of the bottle now.

@upstartcrones I don't think anyone is denying the benefits of WFH. However the employers can't insist that they are going to rely on people using their own equipment and software.

No they can't insist, however as it becomes more common to work from home and with the right technology to ensure an effective ITSM system is in place then BYOD will become more and more prevalent as companies look to minimise operational costs. It's the equivalent of zero hour contracts for the new wfh world. Pass the retention costs (or in this case equipment and operational costs) onto the employee. Not necessarily fair or right but with a soon to be tanking job market it will I think become more common.

Of course with outdated tech strategies (purchasing hardware and relying on installed software and dongles) it will inevitable lead to security breaches all over the place. A bit like stashing your money under a mattress, easy to rob. The UK is woefully behind in it's deployment of technology compared to other countries and this pandemic is necessitating a rapid catch up.

Thanks for the furlough clarification.

Work supply equipment.

exactly as PP say, they are welcome to install any software they like on equipment that they own and supply and that you use only for work purposes. Installing monitoring software on equipment that is your personal property is absolutely out of the question.

Absoultly refuse no way should they have access to anything on your own personal laptop

The employer doesn't legally have to supply equipment for working from home. However if they don't they will have to accept the limitations of what their employee has available, and they can't insist on the equipment being modified in any way.

They must provide your hardware and software.
If I were your employer I would not want your computer attaching to the company's systems as I would not know if you had up to date anti-virus or malware protection and it could compromise the company's systems.

@Swallowzandamazons

Good grief, you're using your own laptop for work?

That alone is outrageous. The fact they want to install work software on to it.....tell 'em to take a hike, ffs. No danger would I do either of those things. Are the financial spreadsheets etc you're dealing with for the business you work for, or for their clients? If they're client information I'd be concerned at a breach of security and client confidentiality. If you can access a businesses private date on your own, possibly unsecured, system, where's their confidentiality? Crikey, I'd go ballistic if I was a client and found that out.

Yes, this is client information - for a very big company. I am still astounded that they won this contract in the first place. And I can guarantee that if there was a security breach they would point the finger at us rather than them.