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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse this request from employer

148 replies

StrongerSingle · 17/09/2020 11:51

Not posted for aaages ... but needed some perspective and advice on this.

I have the most awful employers and quite honestly, am very happy working from home so that I do not have to see them. For the record, my job entails dealing with financial reporting (mainly Excel) and all the company files are in the cloud so accessible from anywhere.

At the beginning of lockdown, they were their usual unorganised muppets and we all started working from home without any IT equipment being supplied. I have a decent laptop and large monitor of my own so just carried on working using my equipment. They have never offered to supply anything .. just assuming we will all use our own stuff.

Today I get a message saying they want to install time-logging software on MY laptop to see what I am doing. I must admit I haven't seen it yet and do not know what info it will be sending them ... but AIBU to say no?

OP posts:
Moondust001 · 17/09/2020 13:03

@FluffyPersian

Absolutely not.

What's their patching policy? their Information Security policy? Their Vulnerability management policy? Does their Acceptable Use policy cover personal laptops? what happens if you're running Windows 7 and don't have any anti virus on your personal laptop and your device is compromised and it ends up sending a malicious link / trojan to everyone in your email contact list? Whose fault is it? (Not suggesting you'd be running an end of life OS or would ever click on anything dodgy, but it does happen.....)

I made the mistake of allowing MobileIron on my personal mobile a few years ago - it was an utter nightmare. Not only did you have to agree that an administrator could remotely WIPE your device, but when you tried to uninstall it, it wasn't a simple process - you had to root around in random folders to delete this, that and the other and your phone kept giving you 'alerts' saying it wasn't compliant - utterly frustrating and not something I'd ever do again.

What information / data would this 'logging' software capture? What read / write capability would it have? What happens if it corrupts something on your laptop? whose fault would that be?

Far too many things could go wrong and quite frankly, if they want to control you to that degree, they can pay for a laptop for you......

I certainly agree. My employer operates a "Bring your own device" option, and I am very firmly "no you can provide one and stay well away from my device" - largely because I have far too much knowledge of how inept our IT department is. I wouldn't rate their chances of installing any secret monitoring at all, but buggering it up...?
Upstartcrones · 17/09/2020 13:04

If you are accessing cloud based docs they can already monitor your activity so most employers are probably already doing it inadvertently without the knowledge of their employees.

Marmunia1975 · 17/09/2020 13:06

This is a major safety issue. REFUSE that request!

Upstartcrones · 17/09/2020 13:10

Suspect a refusal will require you being back in the office shortly. I'm not suggesting you accept and think you should not but if they are monitoring employees this closely they clearly think productivity has dropped or don't trust you, then they are clearly more geared to an office based culture

thenightsky · 17/09/2020 13:15

@SisyphusDad

Given that you're working with Excel (presumably large spreadsheets), I'd expect them to provide you with two decent sized monitors plus the docking station to allow the laptop to connect.
This is exactly the set up DH has been given by his work, plus a really decent office chair.
cologne4711 · 17/09/2020 13:20

Is it time recording or actual (not very) covert logging like tracking how long you spend using certain documents or websites? Time-recording is better and less privacy-invading, but I still wouldn't want to clog a personal laptop with work software.

WaxOnFeckOff · 17/09/2020 13:23

We had similar with a request to add an app to our personal devices (phones etc) as they have locked down any company supplied ones (not that everyone has one) and were unable to download it.

We all refused and said happy for them to add a timesheet facility to their laptops/systems that we are using.

They should also be supplying suitable equipment by now.

YANBU to refuse.

OVienna · 17/09/2020 13:25

@TenDays

My IT manager DH is sitting beside me (also WFH) and he says no, they can't make you install anything on your own computer. This is because these apps collect personal data on top of what the company requires. It is an invasion of privacy.

This is why people are refusing to install the Covid app.

You need to read up about GDPR and privacy laws.

DH also adds that this message might not even be your company and could be a hacking attempt. Be careful!

@StrongerSingle Checking you have seen @TenDays extremely important message about the hacking risk.

Are you sure the email is from your employer? Phone them to discuss.

There are secure ways, in theory, to work from a personal device. But it's not a preferred option.

Are others working on their own devices? Is this a request they've made of everyone? You could use it as an excuse to say: "extended lock down has made me reflect on wfh arrangements. I'd prefer to be using a work sponsored computer for work related tasks as other members of my family will require use of my current device from time to time. The need for monitoring equipment at your end suggests this is a good time to make the change. Please let me know when you can supply the new device." There are even other IT health checks that you can ask your company to do. They'll soon be sorry they asked.

IntermittentParps · 17/09/2020 13:26

Just tell them it's not your laptop, it's a shared family laptop that you and the children all use and because of this, they can't put the software on there.

No. The OP doesn't need to lie or make justifications Hmm.

m0therofdragons · 17/09/2020 13:26

I can’t understand why you didn’t take your usual equipment home? If your computer is in the office just go and pick it up.

ChaChaCha2012 · 17/09/2020 13:27

You're not being unreasonable to expect them to supply a work laptop. However, I expect any kickback from you will be met with an invite back to the office.

There is no way I would allow a third party - employer or otherwise - to install software on any device of mine.

Every bit of tech we own is full of software from third parties. You're deluded if you think otherwise.

TenDays · 17/09/2020 13:27

More information from DH -

  1. Using your home broadband for work is breaking the terms of your ISP agreement. (You'd need a 'work provisioned' clause.)
  1. The company should provide everything, including a laptop and dongle because -
  1. You need a separate secure connection for work, for security reasons (hacking) and to prevent viruses coming from your PC.

He told me a lot more but it went a bit over my head!

So basically, as someone whose job it is to arrange the provision of equipment/broadband for home workers, he says:

Not only can you refuse this, even if it's really from the company which it may not be, you are already being forced to work in ways which puts your ISP agreement at risk AND could be making your company's own network vulnerable to hacking and viruses.

Here is an example of what can happen when an employee uses their own equipment/internet connection instead of sticking to work procedures. This actually happened within the last year:

Employee logged into free airport wifi on his own phone and sent and received work emails.
The 'free airport wifi' was actually a scam and all his personal data was scarfed, including his address book.

The fallout was horrible, not only for him but also for his colleagues whose email addresses were cloned and used to send requests for their salaries to paid into new bank accounts. Caused a huge amount of trouble and expense.

OK, not exactly the same as your situation but the hackers are very devious.

TheRattleBag · 17/09/2020 13:28

My employer added monitoring software to all our PCs (work kit) a few years ago.

They said it was to make sure no-one was working too much (it prompted you to take a break every so often) but no-one believed them.

There was outrage, and some people definitely not me found ways around it.

In the end they gave in and it slunk away, unmourned.

orangenasturtium · 17/09/2020 13:29

If you start Excel first thing, close it when you sign off but the rest of the time surf the internet on your personal laptop, will you be recorded as busy 100% of the time?

Usually the software will record activity as well @tanstaafl e.g. not just that you have Excel open but that you are typing/using the mouse/scrolling etc

Another solution could be for your employer to set up remote access to your computer at work that has the software installed so you are only monitored when using your work computer remotely @StrongerSingle

theemmadilemma · 17/09/2020 13:30

There's not a huge amount of things I put my foot down about, but this would be one.

Not on my own equipment. I wouldn't like the software full stop, but if they want it fine, but they will need to supply the equipment on which they want to install it. No way would I have any work monitoring software on my personal laptop.

DGRossetti · 17/09/2020 13:33

@IntermittentParps

Just tell them it's not your laptop, it's a shared family laptop that you and the children all use and because of this, they can't put the software on there.

No. The OP doesn't need to lie or make justifications Hmm.

"No" is a complete sentence Smile

I learned that here.

thekingfisher · 17/09/2020 13:35

there aren't any monitoring at work regulations???

DGRossetti · 17/09/2020 13:35

Alternatively, just run Linux Smile

Scottishlassie81 · 17/09/2020 13:41

I agree with the work/home laptop. Feck off with your spy software on my personal stuff.

With regards the compensation for wfh. I successfully applied for the £6 or £8 (can't remember) a week you can claim from the gov during lockdown. I claimed 1st April til August when I went back to the office. It's £100 odd back in my pocket. The adjusted my tax code when they said they were sending a cheque, cheeky feckers, but I got the money one way or another.

SealionsAndSand · 17/09/2020 13:42

Wow CF-ery at its finest Shock

I'm here to read the update after OP tells them to do one.

MulticolourMophead · 17/09/2020 13:42

Useful Info

Upstartcrones · 17/09/2020 13:51

TenDays

Your husband isn't actually correct. The employer doesn't need to buy a lot of hardware to support wfh. All the employer needs to do is setup a VDI system and you can establish a secure connection via a private cloud link. The BYOD model is perfectly sound if you layer the right software over it, such as a citrix based solution.

Buying equipment for every employee is costly, not always necessary and a very outdated model. There are much more effective ways to control operational costs.

Original poster
StrongerSingle · 17/09/2020 13:53

IntermittentParps - This is the problem .. they are a small company, owned by an old-ish couple and the "HR" is their daughter who is unreasonable at the best of time.

I know .. I really shouldn't have taken this job but now I am stuck here till the jobs market picks up :(

OP posts:
Original poster
StrongerSingle · 17/09/2020 14:00

@Windinmyhair

Is this just for you or for everyone? Is there a problem with your performance?

I would never allow them to install on my home laptop. I'd also find it very very off for them to do it on my work laptop. If there are issues with my performance I'd want to know, but to be stalked like that implies that there are systemic poor management issues that need to be addressed in other ways.

Well it is for all of us doing what we call daily tasks. As far as I know there is no problem with my performance. I am still partly furloughed so only working a few hours a week. They are doing this to track how many hours we are spending on certain tasks.
OP posts:
Original poster
StrongerSingle · 17/09/2020 14:02

Thanks so much Tendays - and thank your husband.
Lots to think about there :)

OP posts: