To feel this was presumptuous?

[HippyHappygal]

In the process of employing a new member of staff and automatically, they say they can't work 23rd and 30th December almost as though they are calling the shots and automatically got the job.

I'd think that they were organised and honest. Would you prefer they don't tell you and ring in sick on those days?

As someone who employs people yabu. I always ask if any known dates needed off as some may not work.

For example had a lady say she needed 2 weeks off at a certain date but that couldn't work at all as we already had everyone booked off for those weeks and was too short notice. Its nice of them to tell you

Perhaps they spend Christmas and new year too far away so need to travel and are letting you know now? Don't see the problem to be honest.

I suspect OP won’t be back since most people have called her out on her dickish behaviour

And @EL8888 what I do during my time off is none of my managers business. I’m entitled to annual leave. No one should have to provide a reason for time off

They just don't want to end up in shit. I told my new job immediately about a 2 week holiday I needed off - I'd paid £3k before I even started job hunting and most places respect prior holiday engagements.

They're feeling you out too - to see if they want the job at interview, why do you think you have to ask if they have any questions? They're not paupers begging you for a job, they're a professional seeing if they're a good fit both ways.

They might have a family members wedding to go to or a minor surgical appointment.

I've always been asked during the interview process if I have holidays booked or days that I can't work. I thought that was standard?

I think it depends whether the role, and your requirements are for someone to work over that period

For lots of jobs that won't matter at all.

For some jobs if you can't work at least some of the festive period it defeats the purpose of taking someone on.

I think it is good and clear for someone to set out if they already have holiday booked or commitments in the short term. Once employed there will be a procedure for booking leave that they are contractually obliged to follow,. But if they are saying I am never prepared to work over the festive period, if the work require more flexibility than that, it is definitely best that the prospective employer knows and can make decisions accordingly.

@yellowmaoampinball

Huh. I had a quick look at the posting history cos I wondered it if was just someone being goady. You have a LOT of threads about work related issues for family members. Are you an employment troll?! Lol.

I think you’re right. Their posting history is bizarre.

Are you experienced in HR? It's quite normal to be up front about when they are not available.

Maybe they have pre booked day trips/weekends away or whatever and don't want to cause hassle later IF they get the job.

But this is a question I have routinely been asked at interview and it seems only sensible and fair to advise a prospective employer of known dates that I will not be available for work. What an odd thread!

It's standard procedure to outline any existing holidays, surely?

They aren't presumptuous. They need the days off, either hire them or don't.

Two days holiday for three months time is not cheeky.

the employee should be so grateful for the job they overlook any bad conditions
Most retail jobs expect people not to take holidays during the Xmas period.

This doesn't mean the employer is offering bad working conditions. The entitlement of workers is really growing at an alarming rate.

Not presumptuous, they're telling you now. You don't have to employ them.

It is important to both sides to know whether this is acceptable or not, so by far more sensible to state it upfront. They need to know that taking those days will be OK, and you need to know that they won't be available.

If the candidate fits in all other ways then this would recommend them even more strongly to me.

This is standard and I imagine they were a bit confused you hadn’t already asked at some point.

As an prospective employee, I’d be worried about what else you were unaware of and whether you have proper HR guiding you at all.

@dontdisturbmenow

the employee should be so grateful for the job they overlook any bad conditions Most retail jobs expect people not to take holidays during the Xmas period.

This doesn't mean the employer is offering bad working conditions. The entitlement of workers is really growing at an alarming rate.

The poster you quoted did not mention retail jobs or suggest that employees in these roles being expected not to take holidays during the Xmas period was 'bad working conditions', why are you implying otherwise?

It is very revealing that someone comments that A lot of people seem to forget recruitment is a two way street. Some employers seem to think they own the employee mind, body and soul and that the employee should be so grateful for the job they overlook any bad conditions. and your response is that entitlement of workers is really growing at an alarming rate.

@DiscombobulatedAf l agree with that in principle, l wouldn’t be giving my manager a breakdown about what l was doing with my week off. But Christmas / New Year time is a bit different and more popular time of year

I am in a line of work where people need to work around Christmas and New Year. There are always a fair few people who think it’s all about them, won’t be fair to their co-workers and won’t compromise on dates. The reality is someone needs to work and everyone needs to do their fair share

[quote EL8888]@DiscombobulatedAf l agree with that in principle, l wouldn’t be giving my manager a breakdown about what l was doing with my week off. But Christmas / New Year time is a bit different and more popular time of year

I am in a line of work where people need to work around Christmas and New Year. There are always a fair few people who think it’s all about them, won’t be fair to their co-workers and won’t compromise on dates. The reality is someone needs to work and everyone needs to do their fair share[/quote]
It’s perfectly reasonable to put in the job description and expectations that holiday cannot be taken during specific time or during a training period etc. However, if that hasn’t happened then the prospective employee should be asked about booked holiday in the foreseeable future.

I think that they have been open about their commitments. You either don't employ them or say that you will honour it this year but they will be treated the same as all other staff in the future.

Totally standard part of the recruitment process to explain any existing holidays / immovable days off. Surely it's not presumption, it's being up front!

No not at all presumptuous. When I had interviews, I disclosed any holidays I had already booked. Otherwise they become unauthorised, if disclosed after employment. Likewise candidates at my last place of employment, would tell us the same during their interviews.

They are simply letting you know what holiday they probably already have booked with current job. If working these days is essential for the role then hire someone else.

Asking for holiday is hardly calling the shots. Sounds like you might be one of those tricky managers who doesn't like people using their holiday entitlement....

I’d be curious to know what industry @HippyHappygal and @EL8888 work in.