To feel this was presumptuous?

[HippyHappygal]

In the process of employing a new member of staff and automatically, they say they can't work 23rd and 30th December almost as though they are calling the shots and automatically got the job.

I think it is fair enough that they have declared existing holiday commitments, it should not affect the job offer and as an employer you are obliged to honour these. Anyway its two days so not a massive deal really.

Do they mean they can't work those dates this year, or are they stating that they will never work on those dates every year?

If it's the latter then you might have a point, OP.

OP you should be asking about pre booked holidays!

@Glitteryone

I can tell that you’d be a delight to work for. The candidate should run for the hills!

This.

don’t worry, lm firmly in the real world hmm

It's perfectly normal to do this, in fact most companies ASK you to do it either at interview or in the first week or so of the job. And it's not even like they asked for anything potentially contentious like Christmas eve or new years eve!! I'm feeling sorry for the new employee/candidate now, this isn't a great attitude from an employer.

With the best will in the world are you inexperienced in recruitment or managing ? This is really standard , in fact a sensible recruiting manager would ask about any pre booked holidays?

In some circumstances (so where I've been recruiting in care homes for example) we explain up front if Christmas holidays are lottery based etc and the applicant makes their own decision about whether to continue but it's always on a case by case basis at recruitment (so for example a pre booked surgery is different to a holiday).

It's fine to mention before job offer.

I may feel differently if it was Christmas Eve/day/NYE/NYD and it was a job that required working these holidays.

Neither of the dates is CE or NYE. They can’t work 23rd Dec, by can work on 24th which is CE. The can’t work 30th Dec, but can work 31st Dec, which is NYE.

I’d say they’re ere an asset, give them the 23rd and 30th off, and roster them for 24th and 31st.

Huh. I had a quick look at the posting history cos I wondered it if was just someone being goady. You have a LOT of threads about work related issues for family members. Are you an employment troll?! Lol.

Possibly a little gauche but, as with pre-booked holidays, there's not always a graceful way of managing such discussions.

What’s wrong with that? It’s standard where I work to ask about existing holiday commitments at interview.

Exactly. I'm guessing OP is the sort of employer that we all dread - how dare employees have a life outside of work, or want to negotiate anything instead of prostrating themselves in gratitude for being offered a job!

Not presumptuous at all. You sound like you're going to be a bit of a nightmare boss tbh. Are they allowed annual leave?

Very unreasonable. I suppose you expect them to cancel their arrangements rather than hoping you'll honour them as is the usual way round.

Standard interview question - "Have you any holidays booked in the next 6 months?" Interviewee answered. Don't see the problem.

Can't edit, so adding - standard procedure with large employers. Did you also neglect to find out about any period of notice this person may have to work or do you want them to simply walk out of their current job to suit you?

I'm guessing you're new to being an employer. You have much to learn.

This is standard practice, surely? When I have changed jobs and had existing holidays booked, I've always told my new employer so hey can honor them.

It's a standard disclosure- if successful, I already have unmovable plans for both these days. It's not presumptuous, it's being transparent about commitments already locked in pre (hopefully) starting their employment in the company. I have always done this, and ensures any rostering will not leave a gap as it's already known.

Where I work it's normal to check out pre-booked holidays when people start in role. Next year they have to request like everyone else but as this is within the next few months I think it's perfectly reasonable of them. They can work 24th and 31st instead which are probably more in demand anyway.

my sister doesnt take a job unless theyve agreed to her holidays first-mijght be a pisstakey but at leat shes knows where she stands

Not presumptuous, practical. I went through the process last year and made it clear that if I were offered the job, I had holidays booked as well as time off to clear my late mother's house. They honoured both commitments without a murmur.

Asking for book holidays doesn't mean that the company has to honour them, so that's why, depending on attitude when stated, could come across as presumptuous.

It really all depends on how it was brought up and stated.

Well it depends if you mean you’re in the process ie interview/just after or if you’re in the middle of training and they decide to spring it on you.
Feel context is important here.

They honoured both commitments without a murmur
But they didn't have to and taking an attitude that they ought to could be an issue.

I would be worried if someone made a point that these days were off and therefore they expected them to be granted no matter what.

I would wonder whether that would be their attitude during enjoyment and then kicking off if they didn't get all their holiday requests.

Yep, I agree with PPs. A lot of people seem to forget recruitment is a two way street. Some employers seem to think they own the employee mind, body and soul and that the employee should be so grateful for the job they overlook any bad conditions.

This is completely normal OP. What is it that concerns you about this?

I actually think it does say a lot about them in how they delivered this. If you said "do you have any other questions?" at the end of the interview and they said "no, but I'd just like to flag immediately that if I am selected, I am not able to work x and y date", then I'd say that's good, because they are being proactive and making the process easier. If you had already wrapped up the interview and on the way out of the door they casually say "by the way, I can't work x and y date", I'd see that as presumptious.