The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

Our company have bought private tests at about £7 each so hopefully we won’t clog up the system . Every little helps .

Supposed to be about 95%accurate

NHS England have apologised but that does nit really help does it.

@Bupkis 💐 keep your boy home for the winter so he’s safer, I can’t see you getting fined, madness if you did. I’m wishing him a quick recovery and you a good nights sleep.

Thank you @OverTheRainbow88
Christ that's scary..

They should have had testing prepared for when schools came back and kids should have been heavily requested to self isolate for 10-14 days prior to starting school, rather than either on holiday in that time or freely mixing and socialising.

Not really the reopening of schools but the pubs if they had remained closed there would not be an issue in schools

I agree with the posts that schools need to be open. Absolutely they do. I’m a teacher and need to be in school. BUT with the shit show that is testing with track and trace it isn’t going to work. I have two colleagues who are sisters, one has been sent home with symptoms. She has all 3 and is feeling very poorly. She can not get a test, even with a code that the school gave her. Now the other sister spent the weekend with her but can’t isolate because there is no positive test. If sister 1 gets a test tomorrow and gets results Thursday that is four days a member of staff who may be infected has been teaching.

As much as we all want students in, if there isn’t the staff to cover them schools won’t be open.

I won’t vote because unless you had two parties in charge you will never know how the other would do in a crisis . Dianne Abbott might think we only needed 25000. Tests a day .then we would be in even worse trouble .

Do you think they should have introduced it or not?

Given that they were banging on about shutting pubs to keep schools open in the summer, but they introduced this rule because 'people were doing too much socialising', I think the messaging has been poor.

If this new rule is needed to keep schools open, it hasn't been communicated in that way, and there are plenty on MN who seem to be planning to ignore it (but will be furious if schools close as a consequence).

People also seem to think that if their kids are in a bubble at school rubbing shoulders, then it's a free-for-all outside of school.

Is anyone really surprised?

There is also the point that the Goverbnment is "promising now to deliver 100,000 tests a day to care homes".

That is, IIRC, at least half, often more, of the daily total, and availability to the general public would be further reduced by tests taken by healthcare staff and e.g. the ONS survey.

It would be very interesting to know the actual number of tests available for the general public every day. It sounds like it may well be down in the tens of thousands....

I also read a different thread about boarding schools and it seems that all these schools are somehow managing to get all 1000s of the students tested on returning.

@Hamm87

Not really the reopening of schools but the pubs if they had remained closed there would not be an issue in schools

What about all the house parties and bbq's going on which obviously includes the families of children? Everyone flying here, there and everywhere for holidays through August, or even 'staycations'. The eat out to help out scheme which saw the last supper-esque, free for all carnage at restaurants. Different families and their children all freely mixing through the summer as people let their guard down.

Pubs might be part of it, but it's not that simple. The kids/families who'd followed the rules and guidelines get shoved in a classroom with 30 other kids, who by the law of averages will have had some taking the piss. Therefore it spreads very fast, pubs or no pubs.

@Unsure33

I won’t vote because unless you had two parties in charge you will never know how the other would do in a crisis . Dianne Abbott might think we only needed 25000. Tests a day .then we would be in even worse trouble .

Saying that this Government hasn't had an effective approach to Covid-19 isn't saying that another party would have done it better. In fact, it's not even saying that a Conservative Government made up of different members of the party wouldn't have done a better job.

YADNBU

I won’t vote because unless you had two parties in charge you will never know how the other would do in a crisis

It's not like there are any other countries you could be comparing them against... it really is a mystery as to whether our track-and-trace system is world-beating.

@noblegiraffe

Do you think they should have introduced it or not?

Given that they were banging on about shutting pubs to keep schools open in the summer, but they introduced this rule because 'people were doing too much socialising', I think the messaging has been poor.

If this new rule is needed to keep schools open, it hasn't been communicated in that way, and there are plenty on MN who seem to be planning to ignore it (but will be furious if schools close as a consequence).

People also seem to think that if their kids are in a bubble at school rubbing shoulders, then it's a free-for-all outside of school.

I think using socialisation as a tool is all we can do to keep the economy and schools going.

But yes it’s very hard to communicate that on here as a lot of people don’t make the connection.

Very true cantkeepaway forever. There needs to be a way of assessment for tests - so probably GPs would be the most appropriate. But guidelines like the ones NICE issues would be helpful to ensure consistency. Teachers, healthcare workers, police should be prioritised to keep society running. Also those with specific risk factors - eg carers for vulnerable people.

This is something that could be done reasonably quickly. It -would probably take weeks if you need to increase infrastructure for testing (though maybe running at weekends may help - if they don’t already do it)

@millymollymoomoo

I didn’t vote as I don’t like the choices Schools need to be open with all children in. End of HTH

Please vote next time for the lesser of the two running evils at least. Anything has to be better than this bunch of cockwombles.

'Saying that this Government hasn't had an effective approach to Covid-19 isn't saying that another party would have done it better. In fact, it's not even saying that a Conservative Government made up of different members of the party wouldn't have done a better job.'

Quite.

I think Theresa May probably would have made a slightly better fist of it for example.

If nothing else, she's not entirely built from ego, wind and libido like our dear prime minister.

I do think a Sunak and Hancock have turned up and out the work in.

Johnson suffers from not being able to deliver it straight. Can’t do the bad news.

Whitty is very good.

@Littleposh

Firstly, no one cares if you post or don't, just keep it in the section where all the bull belongs.

Secondly, I don't care how long a test takes, they're back it might be intermittent, it might not be perfect but they are back and that is exactly what needs to happen

Personally I think these threads cover the biggest parenting issue around at the moment, so I appreciate the threads being started.

Yes, oddly I think we had the two prime ministers in the wrong order - Johnson could have blustered his way through more of the Brexit mess, and Theresa May could have swept in and been detailed and competent in managing Covid, with the credibility and empathy which comes from herself managing an underlying condition.

I do think a Sunak and Hancock have turned up and out the work in.

That's a point. Where is Gav and why does he still have a job?

Yep, currently at home with a sick child waiting for a test. Would have been very happy for them to do part time at home part time in school to reduce the risk of this... but hey bubbles of 60 what could possibly go wrong.

@MarshaBradyo no the rule that the government laid out was that phased relaxation of restrictions starting with non- essential shops and phased return of schools would take place only when the country dropped from alert level 4 to alert level 3 and that restrictions would be reimplemented if the alert level rose.

As of now by their definition we are back at 4

Level 3 A COVID-19 epidemic is in general circulation
Level 4 A COVID-19 epidemic is in general circulation; transmission is high or rising exponentially

I don't want schools to close, me and DH work, we have no childcare options with family as our only family members are vulnerable and work can only be flexible for so long.

However we do need to accept that the situation as it is now is not sustainable, we cannot keep having sporadic closures, no access to testing, high level of self isolating, increase in transmission. It doesn't work.

The only solution is increased capacity for testing and processing of results, that will inform on high risk areas and decisions around closures, it will also support the industries still closed to reopen.

It does however hinge on us having a government that is not incapable of arranging a piss up in a brewery. Which is where we seem to get stuck.