The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

Why should noble go off with stress? She has provided a perfectly reasonable evaluation of the situation, backed up with evidence.

We currently have around 20% of our year group (primary school) off school because they are reported to have symptoms. The parents are unable to get tests, which means that we don't know whether or not those children have covid.

No positive test results means that our bubbles remain open - even though the number of children with symptoms is increasing each day. Realistically we are likely to remain open until we no longer have enough staff to keep going. We're in exactly the same position we were in back in March.

[quote FlamingoorPigeon]@noblegiraffe people can't get tests because too many are going for them with snotty noses and sore throats not a temprature or cough or loss of smell or taste.
You need to think about going off with stress I think, you are clearly very stressed about all of this and you aren't doing yourself or your pupils any good.[/quote]
You know that gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse I suppose? Is is a tactic you use in other areas of your life?

I’m glad DC’s school has teachers made of sterner stuff than those on MN! It’s like you’re willing the return of schools to fail.

As usual people can't argue with my points so call me mentally unfit to teach instead. Or moan that I start threads.

It's like I force people to click on my threads or something

We've had one positive case in my school. Which sounds ok. Close contacts are now isolating. Fine.

BUT, it took a week to get a test booked and the results back. So the close contacts have been in school that whole time, and several other kids are now displaying symptoms so are attempting to get a test. But there aren't any appointments for tests, so they're just self isolating, and we can't do any contact tracing, popping bubbles etc, because there aren't any more positive results. There might be kids with covid, but we'd never know because they can't get a test 🤷

@Friendsoftheearth

Just when I was beginning to sigh a relief that we haven't had to endure too many school threads lately, the forum almost in a state of contented bliss with the little darlings in school and all is peaceful on the western front - along comes noble once again with the prophet of doom!!!!

Welcome back - and what little nugget do we have this time? And are you wearing full PPE in class every day or just in the staff room as that seems to be the most dangerous place in the school right now according to SAGE?? Not those bedevilled germ riddled monsters spreading the covid seed sadly.

Never mind. Just wait until it kicks off in FE - you know, where health and social care meets trades and professional studies, where full time and part time students mix, where the age range is from 16 - 60, where there isn’t the organisation and discipline of schools or the ability to organise distance learning and mass testing that HE is capable of...

They still managed to do 213000 tests and most of them were negative . But yes so many people are getting tested when it’s just a cold .

I am nor sure what the answer to that is to be honest .

I am the problem is a high temperature is common to a cold and covid .

Loads of children at my school and me and my colleagues have head colds. This is normal at this time of year. This is the problem. We can’t test them all and should we?

Oh god “gaslighting” and “emotional abuse” - really?! Children need educating, teachers need paying, economy needs to keep generating taxes to pay the teachers to educate the children. Let’s all crack on!

@Unsure33

They still managed to do 213000 tests and most of them were negative . But yes so many people are getting tested when it’s just a cold .

I am nor sure what the answer to that is to be honest .

I am the problem is a high temperature is common to a cold and covid .

We are testing a high amount v Europe

Part time school still would have suffered community cases coming in - half amount shut but other half at home anyway

Obviously health care staff need tests

Care homes - debatable should we cut some?

The issue is children get a lot of coughs and colds and criteria for testing is set low

waves I can not believe the poll results. When you were posting this before opening everyone way saying don't be so unreasonable, and yet a determined lot of MNetters kept saying why school openings were flawed. I'm sad that we were only mid way through September and yet already we are in the handcart. Where I live the infection rate is tiny and yet still schools are closed.

@MarshaBradyo

But why should the criteria be any higher when the Government has said that we can test and process 350,000 people a day and most days we aren't even doing half of that?

Even with tests Approx 30% Are false negatives!!

We're in exactly the same position we were in back in March

It does feel like this to me too

A child in DDs school have got it. The whole year group is at home. I said what about kids who share no classes or friendship groups with that student but a) I guess they cant name the student, and b) as DD suggested if a teacher has 6 students in (who had no contact with student x) out of 30 how can they teach 6 in RL and 24 remotely?

@WalesAppearsToBeSlightlySaner

Well as I believe that SD for children is cruel and that education is a fundamental right then I'd say the government in Wales has done ok. Your choices weren't exactly neutral, so YABU for a biased question alone.

Ridiculous comment. I live in Wales and a school near me has closed a bubble today. We're doing no better and our healthcare provision is far worse. Many in Wales will be relying on English ICUs over the next few months. Nationalism sounds particularly obnoxious in this context.

You know the expression all quiet on the Western Front is irony, right??

[quote Iamnotthe1]@MarshaBradyo

But why should the criteria be any higher when the Government has said that we can test and process 350,000 people a day and most days we aren't even doing half of that?[/quote]
They can say it but we are not reaching it.

We struggle on demanding they do more and wait - doesn’t do much.

Or assess the situation and change how we are doing it.

Luckily we're not really affected at the moment. However, the phone calls I've taken over the last two days have been astonishing. Kids with temperatures being sent in, doctors telling kids with a blocked nose that they have to get a test. It's a total shitshow. No one seems to know what the rules are and it's all a big tangle. So and so's mum said they should do this but whatsits dad said don't.

YADNBU.

Utter shit show.

Teachers knew it would be tough but I have to say a couple of weeks ago I at least felt it was relatively easy to get a test and a result quickly.

No tests and the education system collapses.

No tests and contact tracing collapses.

No tests and the app is meaningless.

It's also further disadvantaging the disadvantaged. It's primarily areas of low incomes and high unemployment in the north that have cases out of control already.

A clogged testing system doesn't allow schools to do their jobs.

People without cars need local tests; others are driving 2-3 hours for tests.

@SulkingRoomPunk

Oh god “gaslighting” and “emotional abuse” - really?! Children need educating, teachers need paying, economy needs to keep generating taxes to pay the teachers to educate the children. Let’s all crack on!

Yes, telling someone they're mentally unfit to work when they have valid concerns is gaslighting. Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse. That poster apparently works in a school herself.

Big YES I have had a grand total of 2 days in school so far for my 3 kids. I am in serious danger of fucking up my job, I did the responsible thing and tried and tried and TRIED to get a test. Got one eventually, now no results.

It’s a shit show. The kids are fine, other viruses exist.

@MsAwesomeDragon

We've had one positive case in my school. Which sounds ok. Close contacts are now isolating. Fine.

BUT, it took a week to get a test booked and the results back. So the close contacts have been in school that whole time, and several other kids are now displaying symptoms so are attempting to get a test. But there aren't any appointments for tests, so they're just self isolating, and we can't do any contact tracing, popping bubbles etc, because there aren't any more positive results. There might be kids with covid, but we'd never know because they can't get a test 🤷

Sounds familiar. Almost identical situation here.

Living in the area where they strongly suspect that the earliest known Covid death was (January), I wouldn’t be surprised if there already has been a Covid outbreak in our school and the neighbourhood too. Just prior to lockdown I knew so many people who developed pneumonia, pleurisy etc. Then all our family had a flu like illness.

Now our Local area’s case rate is really low.

I really do think this virus has been through the schools already, and because anyone who works in a school is always fighting one type of coronavirus or other we’re not as likely to be severely ill.

I just think we have to get through this year as best we can and avoid the more vulnerable members of society. I’m clinically extremely vulnerable and work in a school, I’ve gone back to work, I’m just going to take my chances. I’ve had all sorts of viruses and chest infections if I get it, well I’ll just have to cross that bridge.

Life must go on for our children and our society.

We should be trusted to make our own judgements and not be nannied.