The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

@Letsnotgooverboard

40000+ deaths...let’s be honest now these are not all true Covid deaths. Many of these people would have died this year from other issues if Covid hadn’t been around this year...flus, colds, infections, it’s unfortunate but vulnerable people are always at risk of these things. In a population where over 600000 people die per year overall we need to put numbers into perspective. We cannot spend our lives living in fear, depriving our kids of a healthy normal upbringing, not to mention running our economy into the ground.

Well, obviously that is why 'excess deaths' - ie deaths over and above the longer term average - is a much better measure of the actual effect of Covid.

Unfortunately for your argument, the excess deaths figure is over 64,000.

You might say that it is higher because it includes deaths that are indirectly, rather than directly, attributable to Covid. So perhaps the Covid on the death certificate figures of nearly 57,000 figures would be what you are looking for.

There isn't a way of making the covid deaths 'disappear'. they happened, continue to happen, and will happen again in a second wave.

The Government's favourite line is blaming their own balls ups on the muppets who voted for them. And to be fair they are bloody spot on.

Also how come school meals now consist of sandwiches and a bun.

Total shitshow. I’m ready to Guy Fawkes. This situation is way worse than before the summer. My son is off with a cold, can’t go back without a negative test result, can’t test. So we are all isolating for no reason - he’s cleaned the car, mowed the lawns, done the tiny bit of work they sent home, worked on his times tables cos I made him.

I’m following the rules because it’s people not following them that got us into this shit.

But before summer, when the school closures were planned, he received a semi-decent education, we could leave the bloody house, and it was planned so employers had no expectations of you being present at work. This... is chaos.

@millymollymoomoo

I didn’t vote as I don’t like the choices Schools need to be open with all children in. End of HTH

I don’t think anyone is saying schools shouldn’t be open and all kids in but maybe .... just maybe there should have been better planing from the govt. it’s a total shambles

I know it is hindsight but the schools shouldn't have shut in the first place... Look at Sweden!

Now we are going to get loads of cold/coughs like usual around this time of year and everyone will be thinking it's C-19 and DC will need a test... It is going to be a nightmare!

BTW only one young child has died (yes, one too many) but they had underlying conditions.

Also, let's be honest, Labour would be doing no better if they were in charge and It is easy to criticize especially Captain 'Keir' Hindsight

It’s not about children Idiots.

It’s about spreading it in the community to people who may well die.

Sweden used smaller class sizes and social distancing

@Letsnotgooverboard

40000+ deaths...let’s be honest now these are not all true Covid deaths. Many of these people would have died this year from other issues if Covid hadn’t been around this year...flus, colds, infections, it’s unfortunate but vulnerable people are always at risk of these things. In a population where over 600000 people die per year overall we need to put numbers into perspective. We cannot spend our lives living in fear, depriving our kids of a healthy normal upbringing, not to mention running our economy into the ground.

Have you thought about a job in politics?

Starting a sentence with 'let's be honest' then being anything but honest. You'd be ideal.

@SurroundedByIdiotsEverywhere

I know it is hindsight but the schools shouldn't have shut in the first place... Look at Sweden!

Now we are going to get loads of cold/coughs like usual around this time of year and everyone will be thinking it's C-19 and DC will need a test... It is going to be a nightmare!

BTW only one young child has died (yes, one too many) but they had underlying conditions.

Also, let's be honest, Labour would be doing no better if they were in charge and It is easy to criticize especially Captain 'Keir' Hindsight

Sweden don't have an obesity crisis and generally have more public compliance to rules. Each country has reacted differently according to many different factors and rightly so, you can't compare our reactions and rules implemented with Sweden.

Mr Starmer has asked for an extended furlough which sounds very sensible. I think he'd do a far better job than this circus in charge

I really disagree about Labour doing no better. Where is the evidence for that? Labour politicians are far more humane than the current cabinet. They would have prioritised human safety.

And I’m a Lib Dem, not a Labour voter.

@Letsnotgooverboard

40000+ deaths...let’s be honest now these are not all true Covid deaths. Many of these people would have died this year from other issues if Covid hadn’t been around this year...flus, colds, infections, it’s unfortunate but vulnerable people are always at risk of these things. In a population where over 600000 people die per year overall we need to put numbers into perspective. We cannot spend our lives living in fear, depriving our kids of a healthy normal upbringing, not to mention running our economy into the ground.

It’s actually 60,000 deaths MORE than usual within this timeframe over the passed 5 years. So, 60,000 people that would NOT have died anyway.

Excess deaths are up. So no, these deaths wouldn't have just happened anyway

Sweden is nothing like the U.K. why people insist on making this comparison is bizarre.

Past not passed. 🙄

Currently 11% of people in your poll think YABU
That’s 11% of participants in your poll who are either delusional or die hard Boris supporters regardless of the mess he’s made.
I cannot believe anyone believes that this shit show of a government has done anything remotely well

There must be some level at which die-hard Boris fans know he’s indefensible. Surely.

@CauliflowerBalti Total shitshow. I’m ready to Guy Fawkes.

@SurroundedByIdiotsEverywhere
I think the major problem the country has is that Johnson and co. appear to have no foresight. Problems are not being exacerbated by the opposition or hindsight. Though it would of course have been better if the Goverment had learnt from March when the lack of testing capacity landed us in disarray and aided exponential spread...

Government typo. That's just made me think if Gove topples Johnson next year we'll end up with a Govement! The stuff of nightmares.

I think that you can initially blame all those that have continued to ignore all the advise given on how to behave for causing the sharp rise in infections resulting in the demand for testing being exceeded before the increase that was planned for coming in during early October. I believe mainly the 20 to 39 age group. Easy to blame the Government for individuals not following the rules. And I am not a conservative voter or fan. Just saying!!

It’s a total shit show, pardon my french.
I’ve heard about a kid testing positive so the class is off, yet if someone in that class has a sibling in another class - they still have to go in.

Spot on
It's hard to see how they could have done a worse job
Advised and led/bled by that lying idiot cummins

Who voted for him???
Much worse to cum too

Johnson wasted obscene sums as mayor of london, and has done likewise here to the failures like G4S - who got paid for tagging a corpse!

He took the piss out of the assembly in questions, all a big joke to him and does the same in our treasured HOC

An utter joke, leading a group of clowns, name one minister you believe in or trust

Colleagues wouldn't trust him to drive them home at the end of the night, the electorate trusted him with theirs and their families lives, you know the rest of episode one, lets home nature prevents episode two, these clowns won't

Change what they say with each selected interview, zero scrutiny including expenditure or information sharing, there are so many experts willing to help, but they won't listen

What a bloody disgrace

@Philibobs

I think that you can initially blame all those that have continued to ignore all the advise given on how to behave for causing the sharp rise in infections resulting in the demand for testing being exceeded before the increase that was planned for coming in during early October. I believe mainly the 20 to 39 age group. Easy to blame the Government for individuals not following the rules. And I am not a conservative voter or fan. Just saying!!

We’ve had a summer of pretty much no rules. Holidays overseas. Eat out etc etc. I don’t think it’s one particular age group. Lots of grannies around me have been having BBQs, lots of g’kids over and most certainly not staying 2m apart.... obviously.

I’ve heard about a kid testing positive so the class is off, yet if someone in that class has a sibling in another class - they still have to go in.

That makes perfect sense to me if the sibling in the other class has not had close contact with the positive case.