The government have fucked up the re-opening of schools

[noblegiraffe]

They have, haven't they?

Back in June their five tests for reopening schools were:

First we must protect the NHS’s ability to cope, and be sure that it can continue to provide critical care and specialist treatment right across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Second, we need to see daily death rates from coronavirus coming down.

Third, we need to have reliable data that shows the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.

Four, we need to be confident that testing capacity and PPE is being managed, with supply able to meet, not just today’s demand, but future demand.

And fifth, and perhaps most crucially, we need to be confident that any changes we do make will not risk a second peak of infections.

I'm pretty sure I know the reason for not reminding people of those five tests this time round, but particularly test 4 - capacity within the testing system.

I was listening to the radio today about how the lack of testing is damaging the NHS's capacity to reopen services as nurses with symptoms cannot get tests and therefore cannot return to work. The same goes for schools - if teachers cannot get tests, either for themselves or for family members with symptoms, then they cannot go to work. This has been the case even with priority referrals.

There also seems to be utter chaos around who gets sent home when there is a positive test. Some schools are sending home a year group, others close contacts. Teachers often have no idea if they'll be sent home if one of their pupils tests positive.

But surely the government are tracking cases in schools carefully? No, it turns out they're not even storing that data. schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-dfe-doesnt-know-how-many-schools-have-covid-cases

And a survey suggests that covid protection measures in some schools are poor. www.tes.com/news/third-teachers-lack-soap-and-water-school

So with an abysmal test and trace system, less than adequate measures to prevent the spread, and a department that isn't on top of its brief we can expect more disruption to come.

Even if your own kids' school is fine so far, parents really shouldn't be happy with this state of affairs, particularly the lack of testing capacity that will mean children will be out of school or missing a teacher unnecessarily.

YABU: The government have done a sterling job
YANBU: The government have not done a sterling job

@LoopyLoo5

Bupkis would your child's medical team support you by saying it is better for your child to remain home for a while? The guidance says if a child is not on school because they are following clinical guidance, then they should immediately start remote education. There does not appear to be a time restriction on this. If it is clinically safer for your child to remain at home during covid times, I would explore this option!

What a great idea! I’m really hoping @Bupkis can sort something. No way should there be fines especially for situations such as this!

I agree with all that you’re saying noble. Our school (like most others) have gone to great lengths to make it as safe as it possibly can but it relies on the testing system working, otherwise it fails at the first hurdle. Some of the measures put in place are genius and must have been a nightmare to timetable. But schools cannot possibly be ‘covid secure’ - that’s a joke. It can be ‘safe as possible’ at best. Funding would have helped a lot of schools. I think most people assume schools were given extra funds.
But testing is crucial. Hardly rocket science that testing demand would increase. Absolutely not hindsight. Just plain common sense.

11% think it’s ok? Wow!!! As much as that? I’m ignoring the ‘Sterling’ bit as no one on this planet thinks they’re doing a sterling job. But an ok job? 11%? Wow!

This government are a shower of shite.

No I’m with you @noblegiraffe
I was saying the same to a friend. Testing had to be in place for schools to be open.
Testing testing testing was the thing wasn’t it.

We knew colds would appear at the same time as schools going back. For some children any cold does present with coughs and high temperatures so they end up with symptoms.

I too am concerned no positive test result means bubbles remain circulating.

The bottom line is there needed to be testing capacity for everyone to test and keep testing to keep schools and work places open. This, this isn’t working

My understanding was that NHS nurses applied to their own Occupational health for tests, and these were processed in NHS labs?

No idea - all I know is they couldn't get a test through the regular online system, so they got in touch with Occupational Health, got a test within hours, and got the results next day.

Italy has a massive Wuhan population who work in the Northern factories, they arrived back from China after Chinese New Year fully infected. Italians tend to live in multigenerational households and are more likely to have physical contact - there’s no comparison to the UK

Most teachers, schools and nurseries aren’t even sure what symptoms to look out for, or exclude for, anymore.
We have been told that coughs and high temperatures aren’t key symptoms for children now, so parents kick off if they’re called to collect an unwell child, with these symptoms and simply argue that they don’t need to SI for ‘a little cough/cold/temperature/stomach upset’. The result being, that we have schools and nurseries full of unwell children, spreading their germs to everyone and teachers, heads and owners not sure, or confident in what they should do about them.
Where’s the guidance?

Except that, having failed to heed any of the warnings com8ng from Italy, who thought fit to warn us, we went right on to outstrip them on the number of deaths.
China was looking on aghast when they saw the Cheltenham races go ahead, when they saw the pop concerts go ahead, attended b6 people flying in directly from Madrid, a Covid hotspot.

And having banged on for the last four fucking years about controlling our borders, we stood out for the utter lack of control at airports, not really giving a shit about who came in, who went out, and where the bloody virus was going.

Indeed kentmum lots of research suggesting kids symptoms are different to adults.

I appreciate that children have had enough time off school and home learning doesn't work for everyone due to a variety of reasons. It is important that they go back. I'm not surprised that the government hasn't got a grip on this, many people have seen this coming for months. What I really object to is the lying and mixed messages. It's eroded all trust in the government, so has made the situation even worse than it already was. I really would prefer it if they just stopped trying to cover their arses, held their hands up and said, look, we've fucked up because of x, y and z. But obviously with that bunch of charlatans it's not going to happen.

Examples of lies they've told, 'little evidence transmission occurs in schools', 'covid secure' lol, , asymptomatic/kids don't spread it, washing hands is still most important thing (it isn't, SD and masks and ventilation probably are due to aerosolisation, there will be enough tests, low risk, 'world beating track and trace system' hahaha don't make me laugh.

@Boredbumhead both my kids went in for a 40minute induction session, one starting infant school (DS4) and one starting preschool (DD2), I accompanied them both. The following day all three of us had stuffy noses, and by the end of the weekend both kids had had calpol for temperatures and had coughs. DS had a second 40minute “play session” on the following Wednesday, still had a cough and stuffy nose, and the school wanted him in.

He’s since come home with somebody else’s water bottle, swigging out of it as he walked out the classroom. Wouldn’t mind if neither his nor the other child’s water bottles had their names on but my sons name covers one side of the bottle 🤦🏻‍♀️

They’ve closed the water fountains to stop the spread of germs yet they can’t make sure the kids get the right water bottles after they’ve been refilled. There’s at least 2 ta’s and a teacher in that class every day. Didn’t fill me with confidence!

@noblegiraffe

Is this going to be like when we ordered laptops, Clav?

Ah yes the magical laptops .... wonder what happened there?

*do you care to comment on whether Gavin Williamson's commitment to ensuring testing is 'readily available' when schools reopened in the Autumn is being delivered:

We are also ensuring that testing is readily available, so that parents, teachers and students can return with confidence. All staff, pupils and their families will continue to have access to testing if they develop covid-19 symptoms*

That man is a bloody disgrace - how someone can make such a hash of things is beyond belief. At least the Head of Ofqual had the good grace to go. The effing muppet Williamson is still in office.

Other countries manage - this one doesn't. Why?

@akerman

And having banged on for the last four fucking years about controlling our borders, we stood out for the utter lack of control at airports, not really giving a shit about who came in, who went out, and where the bloody virus was going.

I know, the irony, right? The country was one big chicken-pox party style viral open-house from Feb to June and not much better since. And the government put the responsibility for enforcing covid19 travel restrictions on airlines and airports, precisely the people against the restrictions, so nothing gets enforced anyway.

Other countries manage - this one doesn't. Why?

Because Boris Johnson is an incompetent oaf and he deliberately picked a cabinet that were even shitter than him at their jobs so they wouldn’t pose any threat. This was how we ended up with Dominic Raab running the country while Boris was incapacitated.

He made a bit of an error with Sunak though who seems less incompetent than the rest and is putting in his leadership bid by bribing the country with cheap Nando’s.

None of them seem to be actually concerned about being effective, so long as they can blame every balls-up on someone else.

I don't feel safe at all teaching in my school.

I'm getting increasingly pissed off.

Highlight today was having a clearly sick child (coughing, tired so could be fever, sneezing) a meter away from me for an hour in a lesson. Asked if he could be taken elsewhere as he was ill but no-one came.

This followed by spending an hour in a meeting, no social distancing.

Day after day of packed corridors, colleagues not socially distancing, working shoulder to shoulder on computers, face to face with hundreds of students every day.

Cases rising massively and bubbles being sent home.

All this, and less than two weeks in to the new year.

Fucking hate my job now.

@Mippi yes I have.
Plus I am a sneezing snotty mess. So def not Covid.
We have been told not to take time off as we have NO STAFF to cover us.

However just incase of passBig any germs onto my class I haven’t seen most of my family since March and am avoiding all restaurants, pubs and shops still. But thanks for your concern.

@NebularNerd I feel your pain. Hope your day tomorrow is better.

40000+ deaths...let’s be honest now these are not
all true Covid deaths. Many of these people would have died this year from other issues if Covid hadn’t been around this year...flus, colds, infections, it’s unfortunate but vulnerable people are always at risk of these things. In a population where over 600000 people die per year overall we need to put numbers into perspective. We cannot spend our lives living in fear, depriving our kids of a healthy normal upbringing, not to mention running our economy into the ground.

It's an absolute shambles. We used to be known for our ability to run things well. Now our government is a shining example of incompetence. It runs from the top down - we elected a clown and got a circus.

@NebularNerd

I don't feel safe at all teaching in my school.

I'm getting increasingly pissed off.

Highlight today was having a clearly sick child (coughing, tired so could be fever, sneezing) a meter away from me for an hour in a lesson. Asked if he could be taken elsewhere as he was ill but no-one came.

This followed by spending an hour in a meeting, no social distancing.

Day after day of packed corridors, colleagues not socially distancing, working shoulder to shoulder on computers, face to face with hundreds of students every day.

Cases rising massively and bubbles being sent home.

All this, and less than two weeks in to the new year.

Fucking hate my job now.

Sounds horrendous as being a bit like a fireworks factory with no best practice fire safety policies nor tools. Not that I actually know too much about gunpowder etc.

This can not be ongoing for too long as it may end badly as sort of inevitable and foreseeable.

There is a scientific reason for the mismanagement gross negligence as to what happened to so many UK elderly "care" homes in recent months. I hope your school is not going that way as only slight "favourable" element is the average age of potential victims impacted and hence different Covid outcomes. Luckily many (or most UK) schools are not at your state of problematic and dangerous Covid level (yet)!

i think as we head into winter there will be a lot more of this. i think it is actually more unsettling for dc's to be in school then out of school then back to school. i think they need a better plan for remote learning. i have brought dd a laptop as requested for her birthday ahe has been asking for one for a while (secondary school) as the tablet isnt great for homeschooling and she cant always be using the pc as me and dh need it. and i have started buying extra workbooks for both ds's (primary school) national lockdown is coming eventually because local lockdowns are too soft. It is rising and they are pretty much doing nothing about it. where we are we are told the infection rate is low but i do worry what winter will bring. kids can and do manage to learn at home it just depends whether parents can be bothered tbh

@Letsnotgooverboard

40000+ deaths...let’s be honest now these are not all true Covid deaths. Many of these people would have died this year from other issues if Covid hadn’t been around this year...flus, colds, infections, it’s unfortunate but vulnerable people are always at risk of these things. In a population where over 600000 people die per year overall we need to put numbers into perspective. We cannot spend our lives living in fear, depriving our kids of a healthy normal upbringing, not to mention running our economy into the ground.

This is covid denial.

The numbers are in perspective - they are high, and without lockdown would have been maybe tenfold.

I'm not living in fear, I'm not deprivation Ng my kids of a normal upbringing, I'm not ruining the economy.

I'm wearing a mask, keeping 2m, washing my hands.