To be really sick of the term (xyz) community.

[Tinkerbell456]

Y’know, maybe this is magical thinking, but can’t we all be one community? Why do we have to be divided into LGBTI, Black, White, AsIan etc. It’s my view that all these groups have a great deal to offer to the communities in which they live. Why do we focus on what divides us instead of what unites us, not least being human? I can understand that people who share a common characteristic are drawn together, but it seems there is an excessive focus on grievances and anger. People seem to be very caught up in one aspect of their identity sometimes, it seems to me, at the expense of other aspects of their lives.

Think I get what you are saying Linning. I’m not having a go at minorities for feeling alienated. I imagine I would too. I am also definitely not saying that members of minorities are not also individuals with their own views, feelings and experiences. I guess what I’m after is a pie in the sky world where everyone gets on and sees themselves as included, and included with their differences. No one should have to change who they are to be okay. Very naive I guess, but still I think it’s worth aspiring to and trying.mI’d like everyone to feel included- that’s the way it should be. Sad it doesn’t happen like that.

Very naive I guess, but still I think it’s worth aspiring to and trying.mI’d like everyone to feel included- that’s the way it should be. Sad it doesn’t happen like that.

considering all of the replies on this thread, OP, where do you tihink this change you want should start?

Pallisers: education of those who enjoy privilege.

I think I understand your point, OP. Dividing people into smaller and smaller groups. Focusing on differences and anger. Everyone has to have a label, and if you defy that, you're given the label "enemy".

I don't know the answer, but I agree that identity politics is a problem.

It's all part of the identity politics approach, and yes, it's fundamentally corrosive. If you pick apart it's academic and philosophical underpinnings, it comes from a perspective that's essentialist in much the same way 19th century racists were - kind of a mirror image. I think it's responsible for a lot of the upsurge in certain types of overt racism, particularly while supremacist types of sentiments, in the last 20 years.

It's been a bit shocking to those of us who consider the political left our home, but that's possible naive - when we look at the history of the left they've always been susceptible to this kind of thing - lots of leftists say eugenics as an important tool of social justice up until WWII, and maybe people are now too far away from that horror to see how they are vulnerable in their own thinking.

Admittedly, I haven’t experienced prejudice.

Therefore, you're not inclined to comment.

OP, your stance is an understandable one to take if you've never faced discrimination. But they're empty words. I would love it if the world was one big happy community, but the truth is, my place of worship has to have armed guards outside. My daughter's school has drills in case of anti-Semitic attacks. Sure, I would like to abandon all ideas of "communities" but as long as the Jewish community is under threat, how can I?

Admittedly I havent experienced prejudice

So you're ideally placed to comment on this then.

Of course you are right OP.

But dividing people is big business. Making people feel they are victims is big business. The worst thing today is to be seen as "privileged", so it's a race to the bottom with various ethnicities, races, sexual preferences and genders all insisting they are underprivileged victims. The smallest slight is seen as evidence of bigotry or micro-aggression. We are being told that there is no such thing as a universal human experience, and we are defined not by our individual personalities or moral choices, but only by our racial, ethnic, sexual or gender category.

I think I see where OP is coming from. There's people gathering in identity groups for mutual support and then there's ghettoisation. If the majority are told too often "you can't interchange culture with us, you can 't style your hair like us, you can't make our recipes, you can't join the conversation because you're not black /LGBTUV/insert identity here" - there's increasing risk of the majority kind of giving up on that community and not trying to interact because it's too easy to annoy people.

For example I've seen BAME authors telling white authors off for writing BAME characters. That seems too ghettoised to me.

I also see people who have a characteristic claiming to speak for the "x community" as a way of amplifying their own voice, when other members of the so-called community hold diametrically opposite views. Forced teaming would you call it?

I think it's a balance. Too much offence taking can kill interaction with groups that are different and that's a bad thing. On the other hand some things are actually offensive and sometimes grouping together is beneficial. Social media can be an aggravating factor.

But we ''aren't one'', saying you are one with others when you don't have to face even a 10th of their suffering

This is the kind of talk that has got us into the situation we're in now: cavalierly throwing around words like 'suffering' and 'intolerable'. An Eastern European worker being locked up and forced to work is suffering. Vietnamese immigrants being left to suffocate in lorry containers is intolerable. The residents of the now-burnt-down Moira camp on Lesbos know a thing or two about surviving adversity.

For people who grew up knowing the bitter divides of apartheid, it does seem that identity politics is just another word for it.

I suppose the problem is when communities become either exclusive or marginalised.

Where I grew up, there were thriving communities based on culture, but they weren't exclusive. If you loved black culture, for example, you were welcomed whatever your skin colour. It's something I miss very much these days.

It's quite rude to act as if community is only about sitting around with other people like you, feeling sad about bigotry.

Maybe some people enjoy being part of their community, and value it?

I like my book group. I don't hate everyone who prefers the local cheese and wine evenings, or the footie team down the road, but I like my book club. We have things in common. We enjoy chatting.

In the same way, I like my local LGBT community. They are nice people. It is enjoyable to chat to other mums who are also same-sex parents.

Yes, part of the reason certain communities are tight-knit may be that they've faced or continue to face prejudice, but there are also lots of positives.

If you weren't so busy being goady maybe it'd occur to you that we actually like each other, as well as being poor ickle 'minorities' wailing about our woes?

Say you get absolutely flamed on this thread.

Next week you see a thread asking about being flamed on MN.

You'll read it, find others who have been flamed, tell your story, and you will all feel like you have found people who understand how upsetting it is.

It's what people do, they bond over similar experiences.

Be fed up over 'communities' all you like, but they are vital for some. That doesn't mean the members don't interact with others as well.

Even if we were all one big community and equal, people who have similar life experiences will bond.

It's what people do, they bond over similar experiences

Yes, and that is a beautiful thing, but it's not what the OP is talking about. She's talking about 'communities' based on race, ethnicity, sexual preference, gender and other things that people are BORN with. These things tell you nothing about people's experiences, backgrounds, interests, wealth, education, social background etc etc. They are simply sweeping generalisations that all people with eg brown skin are alike somehow.

She's talking about 'communities' based on race, ethnicity, sexual preference, gender and other things that people are BORN with. These things tell you nothing about people's experiences, backgrounds, interests, wealth, education, social background etc etc. They are simply sweeping generalisations that all people with eg brown skin are alike somehow.

Most people will experience similar things based on their race, sexuality etc.

Rich and poor, private or public educated, LGBT people will experience negative reactions based on that one aspect of their lives.

Same with women, doesn't matter what your background is, every one of us has experienced sexism on some scale.

I'm not going to claim to know anything about experiencing racism, but I imagine its the same.

The issue of BAME is totally different to the increasingly alphabet-soupishness of the LGBTIQABCDEFGHETC+ craziness that has (sadly) overtaken the modern LGB movement.

There are specific campaigns for specific groups to deal with inequalities in the law, racism in society etc.

I he trouble we’re starting to observe is when the rights of these groups clash: eg, women and trans people.

But Black people, Asians etc must have the right to campaign and self determine their own needs - because they have historically been oppressed by white people (just as women still are by men); and in many cases they are still.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

She's talking about 'communities' based on race, ethnicity, sexual preference, gender and other things that people are BORN with. These things tell you nothing about people's experiences, backgrounds, interests, wealth, education, social background etc etc. They are simply sweeping generalisations that all people with eg brown skin are alike somehow.

Most people will experience similar things based on their race, sexuality etc.

Rich and poor, private or public educated, LGBT people will experience negative reactions based on that one aspect of their lives.

Same with women, doesn't matter what your background is, every one of us has experienced sexism on some scale.

I'm not going to claim to know anything about experiencing racism, but I imagine its the same.

Everbody will experience negative reactions based on one aspect of their lives ... especially if you're looking for it.

Surely that's something we can all relate to. Dividing people into groups based on superficial nonsense such as skin colour or gender, rather than seeing them as individuals, is going to end badly.

Ah yes, the Aslan community, which I’m sure you’re part of seeing as you’re living in some kind of Narnia.

This is the very epitome of white privilege.

“Admittedly, I haven’t experienced any prejudice”

Thank you OP, you gave me a great laugh this morning! When I read your post, all I could think was, this was likely written by a very well intending white lady who just wishes we could all just be nice to each other.

It’s a very nice hope OP. But you achieve nothing by not acknowledging our differences and that those differences often lead to us all being treated differently by society.

Do some reading please. Problems of prejudice do not magically go away because we don’t use the phrase BAME or LGBT.

By talking about communities, it creates a picture of a separate group who aren’t part of the wider community. This isn’t true, they aren’t over there out on their own, they are part of society, part of our family, our friends and colleagues. Plus they are individuals and not a homogeneous mass of x community. We don’t do this for white/straight people so it appears othering, like they are and want to be apart. In reality the bigots, sexist, racists etc are a minority. We should be othering them.

Dividing people into groups based on superficial nonsense such as skin colour or gender, rather than seeing them as individuals, is going to end badly.

You can still be an individual and hang out with people who have common experiences, and therefore understanding of those experiences

I know my dd is part of the LGBT club at her school, and generally hangs out with other lesbians because its nice for her to be in a group where she doesn't have to explain that she is straight, is hetronormative or fend off guys asking for her number.

It doesn't stop her being the very individual person she is or having friends outwith that community.

It's not a division, it's people finding other people who they have things in common with.

@changerr

But we ''aren't one'', saying you are one with others when you don't have to face even a 10th of their suffering

This is the kind of talk that has got us into the situation we're in now: cavalierly throwing around words like 'suffering' and 'intolerable'. An Eastern European worker being locked up and forced to work is suffering. Vietnamese immigrants being left to suffocate in lorry containers is intolerable. The residents of the now-burnt-down Moira camp on Lesbos know a thing or two about surviving adversity.

Yes, and so you confirm my point? That while there are “nice” people who ponder on “how wonderful it would be if people stopped “victimizing” themselves and just joined the big one and 100% united community of humans that we all are” minorities, are actually being discriminated against, killed, tortured and whatever else? The argument the OP was making wasn’t just about the UK (I would like to assume) neither was mine. Every person should feel like they belong and are treated as equal but it is absolutely not the case and it’s an insult to people’s reality and suffering to imply it is.

I remember years back in the 90s a character in Eastenders (who was gay) saying “the gay community? Where’s that, on the northern line?” (Or some line, can’t swear it was northern).

It really stuck with me, as it’s quite generalising and even belittling to think of people with a characteristic as a homogeneous group.

I’m not saying the expression doesn’t have its uses at all, but it’s definitely overused.

I also hate the term “community leader(s)”, because I sometimes think “what makes that person speak for the community “. It’s often just they are a well off business man from that community (yes generally a man) or a religious leader who again might not speak for all.