To think it's not necessarily beneficial to go straight from uni into teaching?

[GoldfishParade]

My cousin is training to become a teacher straight out of uni (it's also what her sister did and her mum is a teacher). I am considering retraining and becoming a teacher myself, I'm in my 30s.

I dont know why I should think teaching is different to any other profession, because it isnt, but part of me finds it strange to become a teacher straight out of uni.

I cant imagine going from school to uni to school again without a change of scene.
Also theres a part of me that thinks to teach kids it would be good to have some general life experience first. Also if you're teaching a subject (secondary) maybe it would be good to have non academic experience of the subject. And just generally, experience outside of the world of school.

On the other hand, I keep hearing that teaching today is hugely stressful and apparently many people are leaving it. So maybe it's better to be a teacher young when you have loads of energy. Are the teachers leaving the profession ones who have made teaching their profession from the get go, or are they ones who went into teaching later in life? That would be interesting to find out.

Anyway what do you think? If you're a teacher, which way around did you do it? And do you think generally it's better to become a teacher straight off the bat, or come to it later in life?

For me, I liked having the extra life experience and a bigger age gap between me and my pupils.

I know loads of excellent teachers who started straight from university.

I really don’t think it matters either way, it’s much more about who you are as a person and how hard you’re willing to work!

I did a pgce straight after my degree then got my first teaching job. I did have part time jobs from the age of 14 to 21 though.

It is hugely stressful and people are leaving in droves but if you have done other jobs first then you will know that the grass isn’t always greener.

I do think there is a value to having done other jobs first and there is this perception that teaching isn’t the ‘real world’.
However no one expects any other profession to have to go and do other jobs first.

I did a 4 year BEd straight out of school, 2 terms of supply work then landed a temporary one term contract. Which became permanent and I'm still teaching 23 years later.

I don't regard myself as a better or worse teacher than my colleague who had several different jobs before retraining at the same time as I trained.

Are the teachers leaving the profession ones who have made teaching their profession from the get go, or are they ones who went into teaching later in life?

All of them. A lot of the ones who had a previous career can't believe the unbelievable bullshit that teachers are expected to put up with and quit because of that. Plus they are more likely to have an easy fallback. The ones who join straight from uni are young enough to start a new career or take their teaching qualification and teach abroad.

I don't think it makes a massive difference to how good you are at standing in front of the kids and communicating your subject.

@FlamingoAndJohn So do you think the teachers leaving in droves tend to be the teachers who didn't have a different career beforehand? So maybe they think the grass is greener? Or do you think they are later arrivals who thought it would be more enjoyable than it actually is? Or mixed?

I've seen both be successful and unsuccessful, really it's one of those things where you can either do it or you can't. I don't think life experience makes too much difference, a lot is down to your personality and attitude. Some people leave because they came into it with the wrong perceptions (long holidays out of the door on the bell etc.) Others get ground down by the system, a lot are there because they didn't know what else to do after uni and the government waved a massive bursary in their face! Some trainee teachers in my area get paid more than qualified teachers, how does that work 🤷‍♀️

@noblegiraffe
Interesting, thanks. I was wondering if it made a difference, hence the thread. Sounds like it doesn't. That's quite worrying. This is what's putting me off retraining. Feels like strolling into a burning building while crowds are running out screaming

[quote GoldfishParade]@FlamingoAndJohn So do you think the teachers leaving in droves tend to be the teachers who didn't have a different career beforehand? So maybe they think the grass is greener? Or do you think they are later arrivals who thought it would be more enjoyable than it actually is? Or mixed?[/quote]
I think it’s mixed.
As Noble said people coming from other jobs see the ridiculous shit that teachers have to put up with and don’t stand for it. People who haven’t done other jobs think that other jobs don’t have their own level of ridiculous shit. (But not as much in my opinion)

I did a PGCE straight from uni and have taught ever since. Those 3 yrs in uni were my experience away from school - and I travelled a lot (abroad for a month in each summer and Easter).
As a pp said I don't consider myself a better or worse teacher for not having tried a different career first. Surely life experience depends on other things that happen to you in life and not just your job? I've done lots of different roles within teaching and there are a lot of different teaching experiences to be had - primary, secondary, SEN and management.

I think it's a huge issue that the vast majority of teachers, other than holiday jobs, have never done anything else. I think their view of what a "normal" working day looks like for other professionals is completely warped and I think knowing what faces their students in the workplace would be beneficial too.

But obviously you're not allowed to say it.

I also think for many teachers, especially those without other experience, there's a lifespan. Very long serving teachers are often very jaded by it all and TBF that happens in all walks of life. There comes a point when people should bite the bullet and do something else for the benefit of all concerned. I don't understand why so many disillusioned teachers stay, when they seem so convinced that everyone else works less hard and is better paid. They all have decent educations, they could literally do anything, if they wanted to.

IME, teachers who've previous done other things in the private sector are much happier in their work than those who know nothing else. Again, that's probably true in most jobs, you need to have experienced other things to know when you're well off (or not, when you can change it).

I've met some amazing teacher colleagues who are an absolute credit to the profession, since I left industry 10 years ago, a good teacher in action is like watching a piece of performance art, but there are a substantial number who really need to go and do something else for a while.

I'm 42 and starting a degree in September. And plan to be a teacher.

I couldn't have done it as a younger woman I don't think. I would have been too close in age to my pupils. Now I will be as old as their parents, maybe older, with life experience and an air of authority I hope.

I'll let you all know in 10 years if I was right.

Being able to handle teaching is down to two things I think. Firstly personality, and secondly whether you need your wage to pay the mortgage.

Totally agree. There is something to be said for the ‘university of life’. The lack of real-world experience of so many teachers is what’s fuelling the current conflicts and frustrations with so many teachers imo. Education should be about more than just parroting what you’re told and becoming ever more controlling of the kids and their appearances.

@FinnyStory I don't disagree that there are some teachers that should leave the profession however, often they are stuck because they can't afford a drop in income.

[quote EnidMatilda]@FinnyStory I don't disagree that there are some teachers that should leave the profession however, often they are stuck because they can't afford a drop in income.[/quote]
Absolutely but we keep hearing about how badly paid we are, so how does that work?

One of my friends did her PGCE straight after her degree. She always knew she wanted to be a teacher and she's amazing at it.

I retrained at 32 and I think a decade in industry does bring a different perspective.

I work with a mix of people who have and haven't had other careers and I think the mix really brings something to a department/school.

Our new NQT is straight from uni and if I'm honest she's a much better teacher than I was at the start, but I think like anything else, I think very personal and depends on the individual. I couldn't have done it at 24, I didn't have the patience to deal with teenagers in my 20s, but some people do.

Some of the best teachers I have worked with came straight from uni and equally, they often take better to the training year than those coming in later (who sometimes don’t like being told what to do having had careers elsewhere, often have more family commitments or struggle to accept that they may not be very good straight away, for example) and often the drop out rates in the training year are higher amongst those who are older than younger but then equally, the reverse can be true because everyone is different and everyone has their own experiences. ‘Anecdata’ and judgements never help anyone.

We need to get away from this snobbery of ‘life experience’ not being present in teaching (and this ‘real world’ nonsense) and realise that teaching in itself is its own life experience and covers many aspects of the real world that can be amazing and both harrowing that few, truly understand unless they actually do it, whatever age they are.

Good luck in your training if you do consider it but also good luck to your cousin. We need you both.

I think having your own kids is an experience that makes a difference to teaching, but I don't go arguing that people should wait to have their own kids before starting.

We all bring different things to the table and there's no 'best' way or time to become a teacher. Some people will be amazing teachers without kids or prior careers. Some will be shoddy with. Most people get better over time. Experience of teaching is probably the most valuable thing in teaching, and that is what we should be worried about losing when teachers leave.

I think it's absolutely true about experience for teachers who have found their vocation but for too many teachers a 40 year career is far too long.

Honestly my friends in office based jobs are broadly far more "sheltered" about real life than friends working in more "frontline" situation. Working in a school is not like being at school. You still have to manage staff, be aware of regulations, budgets etc. They still have parents and friends and partners who do other jobs, and money worries, and juggling. They aren't living in a school bubble you know. I'd say the majority of the really outstanding teachers I've known have been straight in or nearly straight in on balance though.

I have mentored many an NQT over the years. If I were to generalise the ones who found it hardest and often went part time before quitting fairly quickly were the ones who came from previous careers.
I have seen excellent teachers from either approach. Many students have plenty of life experience and they have more energy, enthusiasm and fewer commitments which can compensate for being a little green. Actually some naivety can go a long way - we all need to stay in touch with idealism.

I went straight. 28 years later I’m still amazing. What’s your point ?

How many teachers with 40 years experience do you know, Finny?!

Very rare to be over 20 years in, IME. In some schools you're super-experienced with 5 years.

I did a PGCE. My experience was... Most 21/22year olds are too immature to teach 14+year olds. Younger than that it's ok, but with the older ones, they are too close and discipline is a problem. In 'leafy comps' or Grammars etc it isn't as much as an issue.

My friends who taught Primary were never thought of as too young either.

It's not so much life experience. It's perception.