To think it's not necessarily beneficial to go straight from uni into teaching?

[GoldfishParade]

My cousin is training to become a teacher straight out of uni (it's also what her sister did and her mum is a teacher). I am considering retraining and becoming a teacher myself, I'm in my 30s.

I dont know why I should think teaching is different to any other profession, because it isnt, but part of me finds it strange to become a teacher straight out of uni.

I cant imagine going from school to uni to school again without a change of scene.
Also theres a part of me that thinks to teach kids it would be good to have some general life experience first. Also if you're teaching a subject (secondary) maybe it would be good to have non academic experience of the subject. And just generally, experience outside of the world of school.

On the other hand, I keep hearing that teaching today is hugely stressful and apparently many people are leaving it. So maybe it's better to be a teacher young when you have loads of energy. Are the teachers leaving the profession ones who have made teaching their profession from the get go, or are they ones who went into teaching later in life? That would be interesting to find out.

Anyway what do you think? If you're a teacher, which way around did you do it? And do you think generally it's better to become a teacher straight off the bat, or come to it later in life?

I was stood in front of my own primary class at the age of 21. I was always going to be a teacher. Doing anything else in between would have been a waste of time.
I'd say the second year I taught was possibly my best ever. Teaching in my early 20s I had the time to match my enthusiasm, no children to worry about, I literally put my all into it and loved it.
Don't get my wrong, I still love it and think I've developed as a teacher but with a family of my own now and working part time I can't dedicate the time I use to.

We must such a great pace to work then. Of a teaching staff of 80 , we have at least a dozen in their 60s, who have never done anythign else and one who has his 70th birthday next month.

I think you may have come to that conclusion to justify your own thoughts to be honest.
There is much merit in either way of going into training. I think that while the experience and perspective brought by an older trainee, is often balanced by the resilience of younger trainees who are sometimes more committed as they dont have to juggle work with family life.
Some of my best students have been older, as they genuinely want to teach and have so much to bring. One was the worst student I ever had the misfortune to mentor, as she was totally stunned that she was expected to work such long hours and fully intended to juggle teaching around school times for her own children.
Most of the teachers I know who have left the profession have done so within the first 5 years of teaching because they realise it's not for them. That is not unique to age or wider experience.

I'm in nursing but trained before a degree/diploma was the necessary way to go. I'm qualified nearly 30 years. Not the same career, but similar circumstances. I've never done anything but nursing. It's what I trained for.

I had 5 years between my undergrad and PGDE. I wasn't ready to go in to teaching at 21. I had various jobs in that time and generally enjoyed being young with an active social life that would not have been possible if teaching full time. The experience of working in private sector definitely helps imo. I've been teaching 10 years now, with no plans to leave any time soon. Mainly because of the holidays, though.

Finny, England has a relatively young and inexperienced teaching workforce compared to other OECD countries, so I think your school is very unusual!

I think it’s good to have at least some teachers with experience outside of teaching - it definitely adds something to the school environment.

There’s lots of teachers who have been teaching over 20 years @noblegiraffe. It’s certainly not very rare. I know a few at my dds school plus friends and family. Outside of London it’s perfectly usual for many still to spend their whole career in teaching.

My graph says otherwise, Carol

At my school there are very few of us who have been teaching 20+ years. I am one of them. I have mentored a number of NQTs in my time and all brought something fresh and new to the job. All but 1 came straight from uni and she, I would argue has been the weakest teacher so far. Having said that, I didn’t start teaching until I was 26 and had completed a graduate programme in industry and ran my own department for a year. That experience was invaluable to me and the extra few years difference between me and my secondary age students was useful.

I think there is merit in having done something prior to teaching but It isn’t essential.

I teach A level and did a specific post-16 PGCE when I was 29. I studied my subject at uni but all my precious Work experience had nothing to do with the subject I teach so it’s debatable whether my experience benefits me. I love teaching and put my heart and soul into it. I think I’m good at my job.

There were people on my PGCE straight out of uni, and whilst I don’t think I could have gone straight into teaching students only a few years younger than me, most of the younger teachers are doing brilliantly and are very well regarded. Arguably, they have fresh in their minds their own experiences of school and A levels so they can bring that in. Anyone starting teaching is in the same boat of school placements and observations, and schools have very rigorous programmes for new teachers. While it’s probably ideal to have precious experience in your teaching field, it’s just not feasible to demand it as we’d never get any teachers!

I retrained as a teacher at age 50, I teach in FE so was already teaching before qualifying - this is permitted in post-14 education as I teach a vocational subject. We have to be qualify after 3 years. I was the oldest on my course of 25, pretty much all had come straight from university. The main issue they experienced was dealing with the stress and students of either a similar age or older. I ended up being the group mentor as I was able to use my life experience as I'm pretty much at the stage of seen it all, done it all. I know that many dropped out of teaching within the first year. I love what I do and being in the FE sector have a slightly different experience than school teachers, although FE teachers get paid significantly less (F/T 22-26k). I teach a mix of students who have achieved no qualifications and have behavioural issues usually involving violence. There's nowhere for them to go so they get put together until they are 18 then set loose. I also teach adults at level 4, so both ends of the scale. Observation feedback always includes a section on how the Lecturer related the Curriculum to real life scenarios, luckily at my age I have plenty to share! Teaching is hard, I work 18.5hrs a week but reality is 60+ I was even sending emails last night after 11pm. I have 76 students this year to manage with no admin time built into my timetable. It impacts my life massively but I'm mentally and physically equipped to do it and the fulfillment I receive is what keeps me here.

Previous, not precious!!

My DDsd was in teaching for 40+ years, He has another career from college for a years, he retrained and went into teaching. I saw stress in him at exam times, start of term and sometimes with an unruly, challenging child or complaining parent, I’m in the corporate world, I get stresses at intervals too. I think having a different role for a bit is a good thing but not critical. I think learning to manage stress, objection handling and communication are skills that you need, where you learn these are irrelevant.

When I was 18 and in sixth form, one of our teachers was a NQT- mad really because she was only a couple of years older than the 18 year olds she was teaching!
That said, she was an excellent teacher.

Honestly don't think it matters that much. To kids under about 14, 21+ is ancient.

I dont know why I should think teaching is different to any other profession, because it isnt, but part of me finds it strange to become a teacher straight out of uni.

It is different, for several reasons:

1. If you take the pupil-student-teacher route you only have experience of learning establishments (rather than industry or corporation or charity, etc.);
2. You have very intense periods (term time) followed by long holidays; this is different to most other sectors;
3. Your "clients" are mostly groups of people who are all younger and "junior" to you;
4. Every year a large cohort leaves and a similarly large cohort arrives;
5. You don't work a 9-5 day.

I'm sure there are several more important differences.

In my experience of teachers (not as a parent I don't have kids) a lot of teachers could do with a bit of experience outside of schools and the classroom. It can lead to quite blinkered views as their experience is just education.

Also, and this us a bit controversial, it can lead to a bit of a weird power dynamic. In that they have only had a post uni job where they are in charge of a bunch of kids. Obviously as a teacher you have a manager etc and there is a power dynamic in staff. But it can lead to a bit of a bossy know it all attitude.

[quote EnidMatilda]@FinnyStory I don't disagree that there are some teachers that should leave the profession however, often they are stuck because they can't afford a drop in income.[/quote]
Many also who take a massive salary drop to become a teacher- it was 50% for me and would be more now

Aptitude is the must important. I have 22 year olds who are great teachers and a 45 year old RQT who isn’t

I worked in the area that I teach in for a couple of years after graduating and in a different sector for a year before my PGCE, and I feel that as mine is a vocational subject it is hugely beneficial, the only person on my PGCE who had come straight from uni doesn’t teach our subject, but does still teach, we’ve never discussed it but I suspect she struggled to get a job with no industry experience. Different if you’re teaching primary or secondary though. I’ve worked in secondary, teaching outside my own subject, with incredible teachers who’ve never done anything else, and equally wonderful ones who’ve gone into the profession in their forties. I do think that older entrants to the profession are less likely to put up with crappy management though.

Personally I couldn’t have taught straight out of uni, I remember how much we terrorised the fresh out of uni trainee teacher I had for a level, she was just too close in age to us.

@freeandfierce your post made me sad, I also teach in FE and I know conditions vary massively, so I don’t doubt your experience at all, but I think it’s awful that you have no admin time, how is that even allowed? I work 22hrs of which I teach about 13, slightly below what I’m contracted for so I could be called on for cover now and again but not more than an hour or so a week under. I also get paid slightly more than I did in school but less holidays and no opportunities for progression at the moment.

So do you think the teachers leaving in droves tend to be the teachers who didn't have a different career beforehand? So maybe they think the grass is greener?

It's a mix based on my experience of teaching and seeing people leave the profession over the years.
Some come in from school/university and love it forever. Some leave early. Same as with later starters. I've known them come in to teaching in their 30/40s and leave within five years as it wasn't what they expected. I guess in some ways they also discovered the grass isn't always greener too.

At my school we have a range of student and trainee teachers of all ages. They vary hugely in their ability and resilience, and their likelihood to stick it out. Their age and precious job doesn't really correlate with that though. It can work both ways in my experience.

I went into teaching straight from university. I loved it for years. I left after 10-11 years after a particular bad school experience. I'm now back teaching, after a few years working elsewhere, but in primary now which I love way more.

My own Dd is 18 and due to start teacher training at university. Her plan will be to go straight into teaching from university. It's her passion and has been for a long time. Hopefully she will love it and go the distance. If she doesn't she can always leave and retrain.

I certainly don't think you needed to have worked elsewhere to be a good and effective teacher.

I also hate the idea that teachers who go straight from university don't understand 'real life.' No one I know lives in a bubble without knowing and being around people outside of teaching.

And it's only ever teaching where this is suggested. No one bats an eye lid that DH went straight into being a solicitor following university and his law course. Likewise with any other family and friends who went into their chosen profession straight from university and haven't changed since. Lots of people stay in the same job/career after university without changing.

I didn't go into teaching straight from university but have definitely learnt more about " real world" problems since becoming a teacher than I ever did previously. Indeed, prior to teaching I think I lived in a bit of a bubble.
Agree with the rest though, why is it only teachers who are expected not to follow their dreams and do something different instead!

I think in terms of how good you are at teaching it makes no difference - I do think it makes a difference when it comes to management. (I’m sure this is the case in a lot of areas of work too - the people who are management are not necessarily good at it) but I think a lot of teachers end up as SLT without ever having had any experience of managing people or being managed effectively. I think this contributes to what a PP said : “A lot of the ones who had a previous career can't believe the unbelievable bullshit that teachers are expected to put up with and quit because of that.”

Obviously some people are good managers without the experience or get better as they go along but some teachers are really quite bad at communicating with adults.

My dd is in her second year of secondary school teacher straight from 4 years of uni. She doing very well and is the most qualified (in maths) math teacher in the school. This year shes teaching mainly A level. It's been 6 years since she was doing A levels herself.

FE teacher here. I started straight from university, but wish I hadn't as I was totally clueless about everything when I started.

I can see both sides. I have a DS who went straight into teaching from uni. He had a first in Maths from a top uni so theoretically was in a good position to choose careers. I did in fact suggest to him that he did something else first as teacher training lends itself very well to career changers.
He went into an in school training scheme, a SCITT I think along with about 20 others. A mix of new graduates and career changers and there was a high drop out rate among the older trainees - I think many had children and were not able to be as flexible.

I was never sure why he went into teaching, he never had a particular interest in children, just a love of maths. However I can see now that it was the right choice because he loves his job.
Being younger is a disadvantage especially in a secondary school, he had to make an effort to seem older being only 3 years older than the sixth formers.
On the other hand it's an advantage in managing the workload, especially in the first couple of years when putting in 70 hours a week. More energy and no family commitments.

It’s not about what you used to do it’s if you like kids. You’re interesting. Creative. And most of all a good communicator.
Was teaching a level at 23. To them j was old.