To think schools are toxic to work in

[Anon331]

Overreaction or accurate description?

I’m a teacher btw. Senior managers are bullies. Talk to you like you’re beneath them. Belittle you infront of kids and other staff. But if you dare raise this then you’re being unreasonable and causing problems!

Never worked anywhere that wasn’t in education. Been in schools for more years than I care to mention.

That's most definitely not my experience and I have worked on three different schools.
Maybe you have been unlucky!

I’ve worked in schools for 17 years and haven’t experienced this. You’ve been unlucky.

Certainly really unusual. I went from public sector to teaching and found it quite bizarre that an SLT member could decide to have a drive on marking which meant I literally had to work all weekend - we all did.
Fortunately the department I was in had awesome leadership and a reasonably cynical team who worked around the random orders from on high, but I still find it odd that heads have such absolute dominion.

My sister be who's a new teacher was very upset yesterday as her seniors are telling her to "focus of the able and forget about those who are not able to do well". She feels used by her seniors and when she raises her concerns she gets told she is being "abrupt".

I don’t think bullying is unusual in teaching unfortunately, it is pretty easy to manage someone out of a teaching post.

@Goldrill yes! Exactly. I don’t think I have been unlucky and I have worked as a supply teacher too so going into different schools I have witnessed low staff morale, I have witnessed soul crushing leadership. Informal capabilities being given to amazing teachers why have either become too expensive and can be replaced by nqt’s or are just not fitting the mould and dare to question things.

I don’t think I r been unlucky I think you posters have been very lucky or you just don’t see the subtle ways management try to get us to not question anything and just follow the herd.

Try being support staff, ignored by SLT unless you are office staff (yes there are others in the school) treated like second class citizens or an after thought; some teachers think we are their own private assistant that they can boss around or be rude/short with when they are having bad days, with no apology forthcoming; oh and no pay rise for years and years and years, on a pitiful salary.

The absolute dominion of Heads and the ease with which teachers can be got rid of is devastating education. I agree with you OP I have a lot of shared experience, now thankfully out of it. If you don't grovel and allow yourself to be treated like crap they get you out quicker than that. I know so many teachers new and old who have abandoned it for much the same reasons. It is a farce...

@Bearnecessity sorry you went through this. Any advice please for me? I feel I’m going crazy, I’m being made to feel this way anyway. SLT cause issues then when I respond, it gets turned around that I’m the one causing issues by being upset over their behaviour towards me! It’s just crazy. What did u do when you got out of teaching? I have no idea where to go or what job to get into. I feel I’m not capable of leaving and having a successful career elsewhere

In UK yes. Too many middle managers, heads removed from reality of being in the classroom. To many hierarchies meetings rules and directives.

Staff under pressure become stressed and miserable so everyone is watching their backs. Too much useless srucnity, staff turn on each other.

Haven't noticed anything like it in Ireland. I'm sure if conditions were better for school staff in UK this would change.

Sometimes. I just got really trigger happy with getting on to my union. That sorted it out pretty quick.

There’s no union presence in this school at all. I think it’s frowned upon to even mention one

YANBU
It can be every person for themselves. If you have bullying senior management then basically people are just thinking about themselves.
I'm so glad to be out of it now. I miss the money but I like not crying.

Not my experience at all. In particular my current head is a remarkable woman.

I think there are good and bad leadership team in pretty much any industry 🤷🏻‍♀️

Our primary is like this. Not only are the managers bullies the governors are even worse. It's very toxic and they all seem to hate each other! nepotism is rife too. It's not a pleasant experience and many a teacher or staff are ' managed out' if their faces don't fit.
I feel sorry for you , but I think it's pretty rife unfortunately and quite sad.

Oh god no. My school is not like this. SLT are supportive and realistic, they try to balance expectations, we are rarely belittled in front of the kids. Morale is low at the minute but it's not because of colleagues or management. If anything they are keeping people going. We are a middling (nearly failing tbh) comprehensive in a relatively affluent area who take in lots of SEN and PP students (high number of grammars in the area).

I get not all schools are like this but not every school is toxic.

You’ve worked in the wrong schools. SLT in my school are terrific.

@castieldeansam

Try being support staff, ignored by SLT unless you are office staff (yes there are others in the school) treated like second class citizens or an after thought; some teachers think we are their own private assistant that they can boss around or be rude/short with when they are having bad days, with no apology forthcoming; oh and no pay rise for years and years and years, on a pitiful salary.

Couldn’t agree with this more. Myself and another support staff are on mat leave now and not one member of staff has mentioned the births of our babies or congratulated us but the member of SLT who also had her baby (we were all due a week apart) has been showered with gifts, mentioned at INSET and the like.

There is definitely a huge divide between SLT and support staff. Don’t get me started on how you’re treated whilst working.

In my experience it’s increasingly common. I’ve worked in many primary schools over the last 25 years and I can see an increasing trend in toxic management. The style of leadership favoured by LAs now is very top down pressure, less focus on the staff as a team and divisive unfortunately.

My sister's a headteacher. Put it this way, I wouldn't like her to be my boss.

Another support staffer here, you think you’ve got it bad 😂

I used to teach and totally agree OP.

The one that sticks in my head the most was on my final teaching training placement.
First day went to introduce my self to the HT in her office. Knocked politely, introduced myself and she didnt acknowledged my presence. Not on the phone or reading, just did not acknowledge me whatsoever. Told the Dh who laughed and said oh yes she doesn't talk to students.. I was in charge of a sats taking year 2 class so you'd think she'd want to know who was teaching her kids.. same woman broke her bizarre rule while I was teaching a PE lesson. Lined up the same year 2 class against the wall and berated them for not having the exact uniform. Literally asked the 6/7 year olds why they can't do their own washing. It was in the type of area where just turning up to school was an achievement for some so I really didn't understand her tirade at them when they were behaving well and enjoying the lesson. Anyway this your thread OP, I think I'm just scarred for life after that.

I’m here in support of all the support staff and I concur completely. My department is fab and while my HOD does treat me a little like her personal skivvy, she is also genuinely very open with how highly she thinks of me and how thankful she is to have me in the department. Our small department (4 teachers and me) are all genuinely friends.

Some other members of staff are pleasant and I get on well with some of them, but most (inc the SLT) wouldn’t even be able to pick my face out of a crowd, and I doubt any of them even know my name. I am blanked in the corridors, or merely given a cursory nod. The Head’s secretary doesn’t try to hide her disdain for me.

Other support staff have reported feeling the same way. It sucks. There’s all this talk of the school being a family (although I will also admit that there is a lot of complaining about our SLT generally and how they treat people) but it definitely only relates to teachers - not support staff. We are invisible.

I have never experienced this.
However I do know of some schools that have been, or are, as you describe. When people are in that environment and tell me they want to leave teaching, I always recommend they change schools first.
You have been very unlucky to work in so many poor schools. They are not all like that by any means.

I think some teachers and SLT tend to be more entrenched in their ways if they have only ever been teachers and may treat the staff like the dc. It really depends on the school but so many wannabes