To think schools are toxic to work in

[Anon331]

Overreaction or accurate description?

I’m a teacher btw. Senior managers are bullies. Talk to you like you’re beneath them. Belittle you infront of kids and other staff. But if you dare raise this then you’re being unreasonable and causing problems!

Never worked anywhere that wasn’t in education. Been in schools for more years than I care to mention.

I was a secondary teacher for over a decade and agree completely. Out of the 3 schools I spent time in, 1 was completely toxic with horrific bullying from both senior management and faculty management as well as serious behaviour problems from the students, 1 had fairly supportive management but had horrific student behaviour and 1 was quite nice. Over a decade of teaching destroyed my physical and mental health. I'm starting to recover having been out for almost 2 years now.

I worked in many schools on long term supply. Some were wonderful. Some were hell.

You can not tell what a school is going to be like until it's too late, especially with the academies that seem to have increased it all 10 fold.

Management is a game that's getting younger and younger i.e. with less experience actually teaching and learning how to work with people not treat them like disobedient y8s.

No you are not BU. How good and supportive management are will vary significantly between schools. Whilst I agree with some other posters that not all schools are as you describe, I would say that the numbers which are is increasing.

And I hope no one make the mistake of assuming that private schools automatically = supportive management and a nice place to work. Here's just one story that was in the news fairly recently. Make of it what you will.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/teacher-relives-emotional-nightmare-13k-18894588

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7321857/Leading-13-650-year-private-school-forced-pay-teacher-60-000-forcing-quit.html

I’m still on meds after leaving my last full-time teaching job - five years on.

Not all schools are toxic, but when they’re bad, they can break you.

I used to work in secondary schools (now in a different area of education), I worked long term in four schools, the first two were awfully managed and had terrible problems, many of which stemmed from ineffective and downright awful SLT. Including the head who started his ofsted feedback to us with a sweary rant about how shit we all were. One was bloody lovely and I’d go back there tomorrow, the head knew exactly how to get the best from his staff and he (and other SLT) had a great amount of trust in the staff. He also didn’t turn and run the other way when he saw me sat on the floor in the corridor with a girl who was having a meltdown, he made sure I’d got the situation under control and then went off to get her some tissues, I know other heads who’d have dived in the nearest office to get away from a difficult situation. Last school the SLT as a whole were good but the head wasn’t a particularly nice man, fortunately, the assistant and deputy heads were the ones running the show!

my school office job is the least toxic job i've had. The heads (i've had 3) arent that interested in what we do as long as its done well and seems effortless to them. The teachers are lovely to us.

Theres no power structure in school admin, there isnt any promotion opportnuties - im not competing with my colleagues to be team leader or get my ideas heard.

Out of the 6 schools I've taught in, only 2 have not been toxic. I've found a lovely school now. Most are as you describe in my experience. All depends on the head.

Also think SEN schools are not like this and it's more mainstream - data and productivity led rather than people and child led.

It's so sad hearing these stories.
You would think that professional people would support each other not just rip each other to pieces! It's so sad I think. My school place is the same. I've seen and heard it all there! Why are people bullies but they all teach the children not go bully and to be kind! Such hypocrites.

I've been teaching for 9 years and have stayed at the same school, despite moving a 40 minute drive away 4 years ago. I feel like I've been really lucky to work where I do and am scared to move in case I end up in one of these toxic schools I hear about.

I've never had any problems at my school. Under the last HT there was a bit of tension between 'factions' but I stayed out and it went over my head. Under the new HT it's all been pretty chilled. They've gone out of their way to support me through pregnancy in the time of coronavirus, so I couldn't be more grateful really.

I think the cultures of many schools have changed since the introduction of league tables, extra testing and academies. I’ve been teaching for 27 years in three different schools and haven’t found this but there’s lots of anecdotal evidence of older, experienced teachers being managed out of their jobs and it’s very sad.

My dh was an engineer and he had a boss who was a terrible bully , but he always kept his job ! They never managed to get him to leave and he made people go off sick and all sorts. It was awful what he did to people. I hate people who wield power and make others feel like shit as he did. Bullies should be named and shamed or sacked. They never are though! Or it's rare anything is done about it.
It seems many schools are like my one too!

Private schools are far worse IME. Far..
Having worked in both state and private four schools over 22 years the two privates were pits of toxicity. State schools had really supportive staff rooms and supported teachers and helped cushion them against the worse of needless paperwork, the private schools allowed full on toxic work conditions including full permission to email any teacher at any time with the promise of an immediate response. Nice when drunk mothers email at midnight. They also employed untrained teachers they were Oxbridge and let these mostly young males hoist all their work into older female staff. They creamed local state schools for the best staff . God it was awful. Utterly petty procedures, like expecting a written apology for being ten minute late, once. They made any absence due to illness hell for staff and managed people out of the job in order to hire much cheaper inexperienced untrained graduates with posh names.

Daily mail would have a field day if private school teachers whistle bleed on how we were expected to get each student a high grade in coursework even if it meant writing it our selves. "In the margins as feedback".

Horrendous.

I've taught in 3 different schools and never thought of them as toxic workplaces. I've had a few rubbish members of SLT but largely positive and my current head is pretty good. There is often low staff morale but more due to budget cuts and increasing demands from government rather than anything that SLT can change.

I taught for a good while. Worked in several schools and had cause to go to several others. . Bullying was rife. An unpleasant toxic culture abounded in almost all of them. There was only one that wasn't a big heap of shite and I enjoyed my time there.

Read and walk, write to the Guardian! They do a whistleblower section which is complete anonymous.
I'm sure they would love to hear that private schools are not all wonderful.
(Which doesn't surprise me at all! )

i think the environment in education is toxic at the moment and the DfE/Govt policy has made it that way. Where you have a very strong, experienced and caring Head/SLT you have good teams and a stable working environment otherwise the top down policies and systems in place enable bullying and sickening working practices. Protect your mental health. Find another school with a SLT you trust and respect. Also read Welby Ings book - Disobedient Teaching, it will make you feel better. x

Yes, I think they can be toxic. I just left a support staff role in an infant school. The head was great and worked hard to create a “happy family” environment. Which it was...unless you were a lowly midday supervisor in which case you were treated (especially by the TAs - sorry!) as a complete numpty. You really had to work hard to show your worth and were frequently overlooked.

Prime example- at the end of last term the school arranged a socially distanced event to allow the children to come to the playground and say goodbye to their teachers, collect belongings etc. All staff attended...except the midday supervisors who weren’t even invited. Nice.

It is not fair to say all schools are toxic to work in but certainly I think many are. Schools can be very old-fashioned in terms of being set up along strong hierarchical and deferential lines. So the chances of a school being a toxic workplace is largely determined by the attitude and approach of the headteacher. I think some of them can't separate the adults who work in the school from the kids!

Couldn't agree more. Work in more schools then I can name. Every school has an underbelly. The quality of the school determines how long it is before you see it, but you will. I also found bullying is very common in schools, the politics are ridiculous and the demands from management relentless. I left 3 years ago and have never looked back.

I think this absolutely can be the case. I think that as more schools joined large academy trusts, much more micro managing and bullying has emerged.

Not most, but a significant minority are.
Being a headteacher / senior leader in a school is a bloody hard job, and I see 2 main types who do it:

1- Passionate, hardworking and selfless people who care about making a difference. A lot of them probably get jaded along the way, but they started out with good intentions.

2- People who love power and get a kick out of being on the top of the heap, controlling others. Those psychopaths that aren’t clever enough to become CEOs or upper class enough to be Tory politicians. Those people, they also become headteachers.

@Banana0pancakes

I used to teach and totally agree OP.

The one that sticks in my head the most was on my final teaching training placement.
First day went to introduce my self to the HT in her office. Knocked politely, introduced myself and she didnt acknowledged my presence. Not on the phone or reading, just did not acknowledge me whatsoever. Told the Dh who laughed and said oh yes she doesn't talk to students.. I was in charge of a sats taking year 2 class so you'd think she'd want to know who was teaching her kids.. same woman broke her bizarre rule while I was teaching a PE lesson. Lined up the same year 2 class against the wall and berated them for not having the exact uniform. Literally asked the 6/7 year olds why they can't do their own washing. It was in the type of area where just turning up to school was an achievement for some so I really didn't understand her tirade at them when they were behaving well and enjoying the lesson. Anyway this your thread OP, I think I'm just scarred for life after that.

This wasn't in south london was it? There is a head there who shouldn't be let anywhere near pupils. Ambitious, cruel and ruthless. I'm waiting for her trip over her own karmic mountain and get booted out of the profession. Can't be soon enough.

I taught many years ago. I didn’t last long as I hated the job. But the school I was in, o adored my colleagues. Majority of them dedicated and talented teachers. We all supported each other. SLT very supportive. The Head was useless but the rest were amazing.

I think it just depends on schools

Well workplaces are toxic to work in full stop!