year 11s sat on high stools for the rest of the year, all have back ache after one day

[bimblingonagain]

Hi be grateful of some guidance on this. All the year groups are to stay in their bubbles, sat in one classroom with teachers coming to them. This is intended to last until next May. They were in school on Monday, will be in again today and are back 5 days/week from next Monday.
The year 11s are in the science block. This is high benches and high stools. Great to science practicals (which are actually banned for this academic year). But to write they have to lean forward. The boys and long legged girls cannot put their legs forward. They all have back ache after one day. Many of them don't want to go in today.
Surely the school (and yes I know it is difficult times etc etc) have to ensure that they have an ergonomic learning set up in place?
Any suggestions? Its a massively underfunded state school (we are in an area that receives the lowest amount of funding per child in the whole UK).
thanks hive mind

I'd hate this. I'm short so high stools are really uncomfortable. I avoid them in bars and restaurants as I get pins and needles in my feet from not being able to put my feet down properly on the floor. I also have a damaged coccyx from when I was a teen so sitting on hard wooden stools with my legs dangling is also uncomfortable from that sense after any length of time.

I would send an email saying all that to the head today.

You’re right-that will just cause physical problems. There is a reason loads of employers have sent their office chairs home to their employees WFH over lockdown!

Thanks for the votes, anyone know what the legal requirement on the school is for providing an ergonomic learning place?

Definitely raise it. Despite months of meticulous planning we are realising that there are lots of little things that we just hadn’t thought about now the kids are back. Nothing quite this major, but it’s so easy to get caught up in making the bubbles work that you lose sight of things that should be obvious.

Can they be allowed to stand as a short term alternative?

My guess is this would be something the PTA might have to raise funds for. Don't think most school budgets these days stretch very far.

My DC are doing the same re not moving rooms and both said they would hate to be in the science rooms all day for this reason. I would have definitely raised it with school if they had been put in there (thankfully neither of them were).

Amused at anyone saying YABU. If this was a work environment it wouldn't be allowed so why is it ok for school kids?

@bimblingonagain

Thanks for the votes, anyone know what the legal requirement on the school is for providing an ergonomic learning place?

I’m really not sure that matters. I bet if you raise this with the head today, it will be changed without needing to mention legalities.

It makes me cross that people still think that kids should put up and shut up. It wouldn't be allowed in a work place.

PTA was disbanded due to lack of volunteers. Intrigued to hear the views of those that voted YABU...?! I had not meant to enable voting, just posted here to find out if anyone can point me in the direction of the appropriate guidelines/legislation as the school can sometimes be a bit hard going if you don't agree with what they are doing.

I believe we need to teach children that their health needs are as important as those of adults, and to speak up when something is wrong.

Honestly, they might not have considered it, as pp said. Email head of year or form tutor if possible. Some year 11s will probably have raised it in a sensible way already.

I don't think legalities are likely to be a good way forward.

Be warned that the likely solution will mean that they will have less secure covid measures. They would have to refit whole classrooms in most schools to change this situation (lab benches, not just stools) and schools have been told they shouldn't be spending thay sort of money in covid measures.

That’s not on. Ergonomic is stretching it a bit but high stools with back rests would be a minimum requirement, surely?

Schools have a duty of care towards students to ensure they do not suffer accidents or injury on the school premises. I am heading out to work, so do not have time to do links, but you can just google schools duty of care.

They also have health and safety responsibilities. Google Health and Safety Responsibilities and Duties for Schools.

Speak to the school and raise your concerns. They should have risk assessed the stools for use over long periods, so take a look at that and have a chat about the impact of sitting on stools all day. They may not have considered this aspect or realised the effect of sittinf on stools all day. They may be able to just swap the chairs around.

yeah they dont have any money for a refit so whatever the solution is, it will have to be cheap. The school is absolutely skint. I can't think of a decent solution - the benches cant be moved (gas taps etc), the ordinary chairs will be too short, if they have spares - the school is pretty full so no other places for them to go. Am hoping there is an affordable practical solution but I can't think of one.

some of the stools do have backs, the students have said those ones are worse as they lean forward to the bench to write and their backs get pressed into the back of the stool, so more back ache on those than the backless stools unfortunately

I think they should complain as it's not suitable for the rest of the year.

However it's pretty precious and a bit ridiculous for an entire class of presumably mostly healthy young people to apparently have backache after a single day of using non-standard seating. Phrasing this way is maybe why people have said yabu (I'm not one of them) - I'd suggest phrasing any complaint in terms of the longer term issues and ergonomics etc instead of that.

I would hate this too, I always found them uncomfortable after an hour, let alone all day.

They might be able to set up a class in the pe hall if it's not in use, I never would have lasted all week on those benches. In our school the home ec room would have been the same so there might be another class to consider and nowhere to put them all

I don't think it's implausible that they have back ache. I also found them uncomfortable, fine for a lesson but not all day. I'm not a big fan of bar stools either, or those breakfast stools some people have round a kitchen island. Maybe it depends on your body shape?

Hard to solve though if they don't have money or space

my daughter said she usually gets back ache when they are in the science rooms for a one hour lesson, with not too much leaning and writing (science) so I dont think that they are being precious saying that all day gives them back ache. Not sure how they are going to manage art/IT etc in those rooms but hopefully they have a plan.
Yes its like the Home Ec room used to be in my day.

You can buy lab stools with backrests - our PTA bought a set last year (pre covid) as the kids would complain about discomfort even in a double lesson, never mind all day. I can't see a cheap solution tbh, but in the absence of a PTA, could parents gang together to do a dedicated fundraise/crowdfunder for that and other covid measures as a short term solution (not sure how the legalities of that might work?)

As others have said, I would write, raise the issue, and ask what the schools plans are at this stage rather than getting too legal: see what they say...

I work in a lab with high benches and high chairs with backs and foot rests. So they could get those but they are expensive.

This just isn't ok is it? I wonder what HoY will say?