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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Landlady wants access to loft during tenancy

131 replies

Jarstastic · 08/09/2020 22:47

Moving into rental to break a chain. Committing to 12 month rental (agent refused a 6-month break clause saying against their terms and conditions).

Whilst viewing the house, the agent mentioned that half the double shed and the padlocked loft would not be included in the rental. Not ideal but not unacceptable to us.

We paid the holding deposit and references all done.

Agent has now come saying will be in the tenancy agreement the landlady to have access to both the shed and the loft during the tenancy, giving 48 hours notice.

AIBU that the loft isn’t on and if the landlady wants access to storage she should be paying Big Yellow Storage or similar rather than have someone pay her £2,500pcm (plus the £120pcm she wants to have gardeners) to provide access to her things?

Or is this not that unusual?

OP posts:
nosswith · 09/09/2020 07:00

No way given the late introduction of this. Perhaps agree a few times a year on specified dates but no more.

Make it clear to the agent that you consider this to be false advertising for not mentioning it earlier.

BeachWishin · 09/09/2020 07:07

Honestly, I'd look for another place if there's anyway you can.

I don't believe for a second that a LL And LA that include these terms in their contract will respects a tenant's legal rights.

I wouldn't trust that the LL/LA and I wouldn't put it past them letting themselves in whilst you're in work.

Shizzlestix · 09/09/2020 07:09

My tenants wanted to use the loft as a 3rd bedroom, I refused, it’s not boarded or insulated. Maybe as a pp said, to avoid occupation of it?

Whatever, it’s unenforceable and yes, the ll needs to pay for the gardener, cheeky mare!

Nekoness · 09/09/2020 07:21

“ Surely anything in a tenancy agreed by both parties is legal.”

Yes, it’s legal in that you are both entering into a contract and if one of you breaks the terms of that contract, the other party can sue for costs incurred.

Also, yes it’s not legal as in if you changed your mind and refused her entry, then she couldn’t call the police and force you to give her access - in other words, it’s not enforceable.

The grey area is - what if something stored there is needed in order to do x, and if you refuse access, it would be a loss of income? Could she sue for that, as you broke a contract? I’m not a solicitor, but a solicitor would usually answer ... depends on the circumstances and the contract.

Nekoness · 09/09/2020 07:23

If you don’t agree to the terms of a contract, don’t sign the contract.

Bluntness100 · 09/09/2020 07:25

I think you should have asked more questions, such as why, will she need access etc and not just assumed. In fact I’m surprised you didn’t.

Now the choice is either loose the deposit or proceed.

KeepingPlain · 09/09/2020 07:28

She'll be around a lot with that clause in there, once a week no doubt to make sure you're doing as you're told. And you'll find that she will comment on things in the house when there.

Run away. You're mad if you take this house, she will be hell to deal with and you'll have a fight on your hands to get your deposit back. She'll keep all of it.

EssentialHummus · 09/09/2020 07:29

For everyone screaming "Quiet enjoyment!" - have a look at some of the case law on quiet enjoyment and what amounts to a breach of it.

joystir59 · 09/09/2020 07:31

Look for somewhere which offers a six month tenancy

Genevieva · 09/09/2020 07:36

It is a material change to the terms and conditions. I would refuse, but use it to negotiate a 6 month break clause and say you require a week's notice.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 09/09/2020 07:37

@Abitofalark

It's not unknown for people do this to retain a degree of control and oversight of the property. They are certainly charging plenty and coupled with that, the demand for unlimited access seems cheeky. I would say unreasonable.

They are probably not going to want to lose good money and good tenants, having completed the references etc so this would be your opportunity to negotiate a quid pro quo, including the 6 -month break clause you wanted and put some limits to your lady's loft access, e.g. once every three or six months, subject to notice - also don't forget to include the shed. Otherwise you will walk away.
Incidentally, do you know whether she is using it for business storage that would require frequent access, maybe daily, which would be totally intolerable? I would also ask the agent for a copy of their terms and conditions. Are they available online by any chance?

Excellent advice. Rather than getting worked up about the request, use it to your advantage.

Also, make sure the LL is responsible for insurance of the contents.

PegasusReturns · 09/09/2020 07:54

@Nekoness that’s not how contracts and the law work.

SRS29 · 09/09/2020 07:58

I thought all short hold tenancy agreements had a 6 month break clause where either party could service notice? Sorry if already asked and answered.

TheGlitterFairy · 09/09/2020 08:16

The 12 months break clause isn’t accurate and will be more to do with their own commission/ payment structure. 6 month break clause is perfectly reasonable and better for both parties.
Not on to change the terms etc with access. Suggest finding somewhere else if possible with more agreeable T and C

prowlingbrooms · 09/09/2020 08:16

There is a difference between agreeing to have a locked space for storage and agreeing to access to that storage. Even storage companies recognise that - I just had a cheap deal because I put all my stuff into storage in containers with zero access. The accessible storage units were up to three times as much. It’s an invasion of privacy, it opens you up to all sorts of problems (what is there’s damage when the landlord comes in - and she claims it’s you and not her?).
The rental company should have made this clear up front and the landlord is trying to pull a fast one on you. She is trying to save herself money on accsssilce storage. If you want to stay you should ask her to pay councilTax (not sole use) and discount the rent. There will be insurance implications too.

prowlingbrooms · 09/09/2020 08:18

Also six month break clause entirely normal. I speak as a landlady. I think you should reconsider this property as the landlord sounds like a piece of work.

Bonelesschuck · 09/09/2020 08:31

You are entitled to quiet enjoyment but a lease can contain various clauses if you agree to them. Push back on the loft (or at least ask why she needs access - what's up there?) and honestly LL is having a laugh with the gardening charge (is it massive?). I am a LL and I pay for a garden cleanup twice a year at my properties, although I am a nice LL :)

Bonelesschuck · 09/09/2020 08:33

And just to clarify, sure you have the right to quiet enjoyment but leases routinely contain clauses requiring you to agree to viewings etc toward the end of the lease so that right isn't absolute. It's more of a red flag regarding whether the LL will be a PITA.

BrieAndChilli · 09/09/2020 08:33

I think I’m these Covid times you need to feel confident that your home is a safe place. If she’s traipsing in (and possibly bringing someone else with her to hell) you have no idea if that have Covid, likewise with the gardener. If he’s in your shed getting her tools out you don’t know what he’s touching of yours.
What is she traipses in mud and accuses you of it so charges you for a new carpet from the deposit?
Is there anything like water tank or electrics in the loft that you or someone might need access to in an emergency (leak or the such)
What if you are out when she comes but suddenly something goes missing or gets broken? It will be awkward to have to accuse her.
What if a bird gets into the loft? Or another pest? You won’t have access to scope it out?
What if something she’s storing is illegal or hazardous? Will you be liable?

What is something of hers gets damaged or ruined? Will she accuse you of going into the loft?
What is she’s constantly wants access at 7am on a Sunday, or you work nights and she wants access in the day while you are trying to sleep?

CodenameVillanelle · 09/09/2020 08:34

@Hont1986

Lots of people insisting that this is totally illegal, I wonder how many of them are property lawyers.

It is not particularly unusual for a landlord to reserve some storage space. You were told about this at the viewing, and still proceeded. Now you seem surprised that the landlord might want to actually access her storage?

Are you for fucking real??
EmbarrassedUser · 09/09/2020 08:34

You agreed to it and signed the tenancy so tough luck. If you weren’t happy with it then you should have found somewhere else. Yes, the landlady could have used big yellow storage but she didn’t. She wrote it into the tenancy that she was using your loft. It wasn’t a surprise to you and you took on the house knowing this. Chalk it up to experience and look to buy ASAP.

Hont1986 · 09/09/2020 08:36

Yes? Most tenancies have language about allowing viewings and inspections with 24 hours notice, why would it be so strange that similar terms are included about access to the landlord's storage?

ChanceChanceChance · 09/09/2020 08:37

@EmbarrassedUser

You agreed to it and signed the tenancy so tough luck. If you weren’t happy with it then you should have found somewhere else. Yes, the landlady could have used big yellow storage but she didn’t. She wrote it into the tenancy that she was using your loft. It wasn’t a surprise to you and you took on the house knowing this. Chalk it up to experience and look to buy ASAP.
They haven't signed the contract yet have they Confused
FenellaVelour · 09/09/2020 08:41

Yes? Most tenancies have language about allowing viewings and inspections with 24 hours notice, why would it be so strange that similar terms are included about access to the landlord's storage?

Viewings is an illegal term so not enforceable.

Inspections are allowable provided they do not interfere with quiet enjoyment, i.e. not every month. They’re also very different to what the OP’s potential landlord is proposing.

CodenameVillanelle · 09/09/2020 08:42

@Hont1986

Yes? Most tenancies have language about allowing viewings and inspections with 24 hours notice, why would it be so strange that similar terms are included about access to the landlord's storage?
Because it completely goes against the spirit of the law around letting Tenants don't just borrow the properties they pay for, they are their homes, entirely and legally while they have a contract in place. Landlord inspections are usually set out in advance and agreed to the frequency. They serve no purpose to the tenant but they are an expected part of renting. Allowing the landlord to come into their home whenever they want to in order to access storage is entirely different and completely unreasonable. If a landlord wants ACCESSIBLE storage they must pay for it. Otherwise they must accept that they can't access the storage whilst the tenants are in situ. This is landlords wanting their cake and eating it to the clear detriment of the tenants.