Landlady wants access to loft during tenancy

[Jarstastic]

Moving into rental to break a chain. Committing to 12 month rental (agent refused a 6-month break clause saying against their terms and conditions).

Whilst viewing the house, the agent mentioned that half the double shed and the padlocked loft would not be included in the rental. Not ideal but not unacceptable to us.

We paid the holding deposit and references all done.

Agent has now come saying will be in the tenancy agreement the landlady to have access to both the shed and the loft during the tenancy, giving 48 hours notice.

AIBU that the loft isn’t on and if the landlady wants access to storage she should be paying Big Yellow Storage or similar rather than have someone pay her £2,500pcm (plus the £120pcm she wants to have gardeners) to provide access to her things?

Or is this not that unusual?

I think it maybe as a precaution to stop illegal occupation of the loft. I have seen this before. It could be because her insurance doesn’t cover the loft being “lived in” as it hasn’t got planning permission or isn’t structurally sound enough for occupation.

Surely anything in a tenancy agreed by both parties is legal?

No, it's not that simple.

OP, I think I'd just keep saying 'no, sorry, that's not convenient, we need you to respect our rights to quiet enjoyment'. Obviously the LL is bonkers but you're only there for 12 months and then you're getting out, so the bottom line is you want to have as little hassle as possible.

I won't pretend to legal expertise, but I would think someone saying they left some things locked in the loft is quite different from someone saying they'd access that loft during your tenancy. I'd expect loft storage to be stuff like spare tiles for the floor, maybe spare furniture the LL doesn't want included in the let, that sort of thing. Reasonable to lock it out of the way. Not reasonable to use the loft as personal storage and then expect access.

If you are in a big city they are probably doing this to prevent you from growing weed there rather than having anything stored there. Many estate agents actually recommend not providing attic / cellar / shed access for this reason plus to prevent illegal sub-letting.

If you don’t like it pull out.

I'm the landlady in a similar scenario. We still store a few things in the unlocked loft & a cupboard in the garage. It's mentioned in the tenancy agreement but have only asked for access to have our handyman get paint following repairs. It's never been raised as an issue by any tenant. With an unsigned tenancy agreement you could negotiate & refuse to sign unless the access clause is removed but as someone who has previously requested a break clause & only moving in to break a chain you would not have been top of my list of tenants to rent to. Only you can know if they are likely to have other takers or if you have other options if you don't agree. I'd possibly ask for language along the lines of "not to exceed x times per calendar month" to be included.

I'd say that landlords do sometimes store items in the loft or basement of a property. This shouldn't be too much of a problem if they only want access once or twice a year but access on a regular basis is not on.

I may not be remembering the case properly, but wasn't Goremsandu vs London Borough of Harrow to do with HMOs and what constituted one?

@gobbynorthernbird - yes, spot on! ( the bit about the Locked conservatory with stored furniture is more of an aside and not the key point)

That’s crazy! It’s one thing to have the loft off limits, quite different to have the landlord having rights to traipse in as they please! Total no, could be a nightmare

It is illegal as it voids another contractual law, of quiet of enjoyment. Remind them of this and give them the option to continue or surrender the tenancy null and void.

Access can only be enforced if for emergency situations, such as accessing gas or water mains. Loft space is illegal and wouldn't stand in a court of law.

Also, as most agencies seem to misunderstand, the 48hour period is a minimum length of time to give a tenant if they actually AGREE to your visitation. If you refuse for a non emergency situation and they still enter it could be deemed as trespass and tenant harrassment, if the behaviours pursued as stated above the contract becomes void.

Maybe she’s even using the lift as excuse to check on things.

As a landlord, I say unacceptable. We live abroad and wanted to keep a few things in our loft in two boxes as it didn't make sense to cart them across the world with us, nor to pay for storage for them. Compromise was leaving them in the loft, but still with plenty of space for the tenants and a note in the contract. It is a massive jump from storing a bit of something, to asking for access!! No way!!!

We have done exactly this. Many landlords retain some storage in the property.

Some of the suggestions on here against landlords are poppycock.

However it's not normal to enter it on a regular basis (usually would expect only in an emergency situation for the landlord, I've only ever had to access once in 10 years.) And rent should reflect reduced storage space of the shed.
What is more unreasonable is the 12 month contract - they know your personal circumstances and clearly view you as good tenants. Why such inflexibility? and what is totally unreasonable is the garden fee - especially for that amount of rent.
They either pay for a gardener or provide you with the means to the gardening yourself, or do both.
I think you need to ask how often they would expect access.
Also bear in mind that if you need to leave early if you allow viewings and pay any landlord costs (for new tenants) then you can break the contract. Fees as likely to be alot less than that rent!!

@PyongyangKipperbang

Actually, would a padlocked loft pass a fire safety inspection?

I suspect not.

This is certainly a consideration and likewise may have implications for your home insurance premium....you don't know what's up there after all.

The house opposite is rented out and the owners use the garage to store things in (I think they may own a second hand shop or something). They are there every six weeks or so, taking stuff out of storing other stuff. The difference is that they don't have to enter the property to access it.

Say no

it's just about reasonable for the LL to choose to only rent out that part of their property that they don't need, and to retain the use of that part which they do need.

it isn't reasonable to expect unlimited access with their only concession to the effect on you being 48 hrs notice. you don't have to put up with this.

I would tell the agency this is not a legal clause and you need deposit returned and you will find another property. This is just a stupid arrangement and they sound like nightmares!

Now you seem surprised that the landlord might want to actually access her storage?

Well, yes @Hont1986. Why wouldn't she be surprised? As you say, it's not
unusual for a LL to have a small area for some storage - but it is unusual for them to expect access to that storage during the length of the lease. If the LL decides they want access to this every Sunday, for example, it's not being 'stored' it's being used.

For someone who made such a condescending post, you seem to have rather a naive understanding of renting.

I don’t have access to the lift, it’s locked. I have seen inside and it’s empty - apart from spare bathroom tiles, flooring and paint all for the house.

My name is in the council tax bill not the LL therefore I’m liable - as is anyone who has there name on the demand

Tbh I’d tell the agent that not using the loft or shed is fine BUT you’re not running a self storage unit from your rental therefore your LL either moves her items to self storage unit for easy access or you’ll be requiring a refund

My tenants are not allowed access to the loft as it’s full of stored furniture and this was agreed before they moved in but equally I would not ask for access to the loft either.

Fucking hell, landlords are arseholes, aren't they?

As a class, obviously, NALALT.

Legalities aside, you need to know how often she might visit. Did this used to be her home? Might she be the kind of landlord who hasn't quite understood that she doesn't live there any more and can't control how tenants choose to use the place?

I've had a landlord like that before. PITA. Also retained use of the adjoining garage and regularly did noisy DIY there!

Oh and is it furnished? Far more likely to be madly interfering if so.